1
00:01:03,670 --> 00:00:26,240
[Music]

2
00:01:06,390 --> 00:01:05,590
hello everyone i'm martin willis your

3
00:01:08,149 --> 00:01:06,400
host

4
00:01:09,590 --> 00:01:08,159
and i'm really excited about this

5
00:01:11,990 --> 00:01:09,600
evening show

6
00:01:13,590 --> 00:01:12,000
you know countless times over human

7
00:01:16,310 --> 00:01:13,600
existence

8
00:01:17,749 --> 00:01:16,320
advancements in science have been

9
00:01:21,350 --> 00:01:17,759
curtailed basically

10
00:01:24,310 --> 00:01:21,360
because of fears and egos

11
00:01:25,590 --> 00:01:24,320
and the one you know i often think of

12
00:01:29,429 --> 00:01:25,600
when it comes to

13
00:01:33,190 --> 00:01:29,439
astronomy and things like that

14
00:01:36,310 --> 00:01:33,200
is uh when galileo basically

15
00:01:39,350 --> 00:01:36,320
understood that copernicus copernicus is

16
00:01:43,350 --> 00:01:39,360
that's kind of a hard name to say

17
00:01:45,590 --> 00:01:43,360
his idea of the heliocentric theory

18
00:01:46,710 --> 00:01:45,600
that the earth is not the center of the

19
00:01:48,950 --> 00:01:46,720
universe

20
00:01:50,069 --> 00:01:48,960
um you know look what happened to him

21
00:01:54,789 --> 00:01:50,079
the

22
00:01:57,109 --> 00:01:54,799
think it was

23
00:01:58,870 --> 00:01:57,119
uh basically sentenced him to house

24
00:02:01,670 --> 00:01:58,880
arrest for the rest of his life he

25
00:02:02,389 --> 00:02:01,680
lasted 10 more years and house arrest

26
00:02:05,190 --> 00:02:02,399
and

27
00:02:06,469 --> 00:02:05,200
all along he was right uh right to think

28
00:02:08,309 --> 00:02:06,479
out of the box

29
00:02:09,990 --> 00:02:08,319
and even now there are a lot of

30
00:02:11,110 --> 00:02:10,000
scientists that kind of have the same

31
00:02:13,510 --> 00:02:11,120
attitude that

32
00:02:15,510 --> 00:02:13,520
you know they should know something um

33
00:02:16,710 --> 00:02:15,520
so if they don't know it then it can't

34
00:02:18,790 --> 00:02:16,720
be so

35
00:02:19,910 --> 00:02:18,800
and it's kind of like you know the

36
00:02:23,589 --> 00:02:19,920
universe

37
00:02:26,869 --> 00:02:23,599
evolves around us and i like when people

38
00:02:29,910 --> 00:02:26,879
can have an open mind and

39
00:02:33,670 --> 00:02:29,920
they dare to look outside of the box of

40
00:02:36,949 --> 00:02:33,680
most thinking and take take a chance

41
00:02:40,070 --> 00:02:36,959
and this is what our guest did tonight

42
00:02:42,070 --> 00:02:40,080
he is avi loeb he was the longest

43
00:02:43,350 --> 00:02:42,080
serving chair of harvard's department of

44
00:02:47,830 --> 00:02:43,360
astronomy

45
00:02:51,430 --> 00:02:47,840
and so much more he was involved in the

46
00:02:52,869 --> 00:02:51,440
breakthrough initiative the star shot

47
00:02:54,550 --> 00:02:52,879
which i think was really interesting i

48
00:02:55,190 --> 00:02:54,560
think that might have had some influence

49
00:02:58,229 --> 00:02:55,200
on

50
00:03:00,550 --> 00:02:58,239
his thoughts about the omua muah

51
00:03:01,990 --> 00:03:00,560
the strange object that first came

52
00:03:04,630 --> 00:03:02,000
through our

53
00:03:05,990 --> 00:03:04,640
solar system back i think it was 2017. i

54
00:03:09,430 --> 00:03:06,000
read the book i

55
00:03:11,670 --> 00:03:09,440
uh really loved his book and it's called

56
00:03:14,149 --> 00:03:11,680
extraterrestrial the first sign of

57
00:03:16,949 --> 00:03:14,159
intelligent life beyond earth

58
00:03:18,630 --> 00:03:16,959
i was thinking today um i wish i was an

59
00:03:19,910 --> 00:03:18,640
astronomer so i could ask really good

60
00:03:21,830 --> 00:03:19,920
questions

61
00:03:23,670 --> 00:03:21,840
and uh all of a sudden i thought you

62
00:03:27,190 --> 00:03:23,680
know i know an astronomer

63
00:03:28,949 --> 00:03:27,200
why don't i ask him for some questions

64
00:03:31,430 --> 00:03:28,959
and then he sort of invited himself on

65
00:03:33,509 --> 00:03:31,440
the show so he'll be joining us

66
00:03:35,350 --> 00:03:33,519
mark d'antonio in the second hour of the

67
00:03:36,309 --> 00:03:35,360
show and i'm sure he'll have some great

68
00:03:38,710 --> 00:03:36,319
questions

69
00:03:40,550 --> 00:03:38,720
and i know i got a little inside that

70
00:03:43,830 --> 00:03:40,560
he's kind of on the same

71
00:03:44,710 --> 00:03:43,840
uh same track with avi on what this

72
00:03:47,350 --> 00:03:44,720
thing is

73
00:03:48,789 --> 00:03:47,360
um and so that should be interesting in

74
00:03:50,229 --> 00:03:48,799
the very last half hour of the show

75
00:03:51,110 --> 00:03:50,239
we'll be taking calls bill will be

76
00:03:54,149 --> 00:03:51,120
taking

77
00:03:55,589 --> 00:03:54,159
uh we're screening the calls and uh so

78
00:03:56,470 --> 00:03:55,599
think up some great questions if you'd

79
00:03:58,390 --> 00:03:56,480
like to call in

80
00:03:59,589 --> 00:03:58,400
and that's the last half hour we will be

81
00:04:01,270 --> 00:03:59,599
taking a break

82
00:04:02,710 --> 00:04:01,280
at the top of the hour at that time i'm

83
00:04:03,990 --> 00:04:02,720
going to bring in mark d'antonio we're

84
00:04:07,030 --> 00:04:04,000
going to talk a little bit

85
00:04:10,070 --> 00:04:07,040
and then come back again with avi

86
00:04:11,990 --> 00:04:10,080
and i've been getting pics

87
00:04:13,110 --> 00:04:12,000
from listeners all over the world thank

88
00:04:14,869 --> 00:04:13,120
you so much

89
00:04:16,310 --> 00:04:14,879
and if you want to send me one and a

90
00:04:18,949 --> 00:04:16,320
picture of yourself or the

91
00:04:20,710 --> 00:04:18,959
something that represents the location i

92
00:04:22,150 --> 00:04:20,720
created a new email address for that

93
00:04:25,030 --> 00:04:22,160
it's called gps

94
00:04:25,350 --> 00:04:25,040
at podcast ufo and there's also a page

95
00:04:28,550 --> 00:04:25,360
on

96
00:04:29,909 --> 00:04:28,560
the website uh podcast podcastufo.com

97
00:04:31,510 --> 00:04:29,919
that uh you can look at all the

98
00:04:31,990 --> 00:04:31,520
listeners pictures from all over the

99
00:04:35,270 --> 00:04:32,000
world

100
00:04:36,230 --> 00:04:35,280
uh one from um iraq actually and

101
00:04:39,270 --> 00:04:36,240
everywhere

102
00:04:40,150 --> 00:04:39,280
and uh there's another great blog this

103
00:04:42,550 --> 00:04:40,160
week by

104
00:04:44,629 --> 00:04:42,560
charles lear who creates them on in

105
00:04:45,110 --> 00:04:44,639
audio blogs for every friday afternoon

106
00:04:47,189 --> 00:04:45,120
or most

107
00:04:49,030 --> 00:04:47,199
mostly every friday afternoon this one's

108
00:04:52,070 --> 00:04:49,040
called more metal from the ufo

109
00:04:54,230 --> 00:04:52,080
the bob white object and i've seen this

110
00:04:57,189 --> 00:04:54,240
metal it's a strange cone-shaped

111
00:04:57,510 --> 00:04:57,199
piece um but uh i'm not going to say

112
00:04:59,430 --> 00:04:57,520
it's

113
00:05:00,710 --> 00:04:59,440
extraterrestrial who knows what that is

114
00:05:03,510 --> 00:05:00,720
but we'll be talking more about

115
00:05:04,790 --> 00:05:03,520
extraterrestrial objects in just a

116
00:05:06,230 --> 00:05:04,800
minute with our guest

117
00:05:07,990 --> 00:05:06,240
if you support the show i want to thank

118
00:05:11,749 --> 00:05:08,000
you so much and

119
00:05:13,189 --> 00:05:11,759
check out our facebook page and uh

120
00:05:15,029 --> 00:05:13,199
i hope you're in chat tonight if you're

121
00:05:16,469 --> 00:05:15,039
watching live on youtube

122
00:05:18,070 --> 00:05:16,479
and if you want to post questions just

123
00:05:19,110 --> 00:05:18,080
make sure you put them in all caps so i

124
00:05:20,710 --> 00:05:19,120
can see them

125
00:05:22,550 --> 00:05:20,720
and pay attention to them but i will

126
00:05:24,870 --> 00:05:22,560
only post those questions when

127
00:05:26,310 --> 00:05:24,880
they make sense at the time i may have

128
00:05:27,670 --> 00:05:26,320
to go back to them later

129
00:05:30,150 --> 00:05:27,680
but for right now i'm bringing in our

130
00:05:33,350 --> 00:05:30,160
guest welcome to the show avi

131
00:05:34,870 --> 00:05:33,360
thanks for having me thank you and i as

132
00:05:37,350 --> 00:05:34,880
you probably just heard i love you

133
00:05:38,070 --> 00:05:37,360
i loved your book i really enjoyed it

134
00:05:40,790 --> 00:05:38,080
and uh

135
00:05:41,270 --> 00:05:40,800
i like you know i'm not an astronomer

136
00:05:43,670 --> 00:05:41,280
i'm not

137
00:05:45,430 --> 00:05:43,680
someone in science but i like the that i

138
00:05:47,189 --> 00:05:45,440
could read that book and understand it

139
00:05:49,110 --> 00:05:47,199
used a lot of analogies that were really

140
00:05:51,270 --> 00:05:49,120
helpful and uh

141
00:05:52,390 --> 00:05:51,280
well i only i only explain things that i

142
00:05:55,830 --> 00:05:52,400
understand

143
00:05:59,110 --> 00:05:55,840
that's what i tell my students yeah

144
00:06:01,189 --> 00:05:59,120
yeah and i like you brought a lot of um

145
00:06:02,710 --> 00:06:01,199
the child thinking in it like what your

146
00:06:03,990 --> 00:06:02,720
daughters thought about certain things i

147
00:06:06,230 --> 00:06:04,000
love the story about

148
00:06:08,309 --> 00:06:06,240
the title uh i don't know what you call

149
00:06:10,150 --> 00:06:08,319
it when something's gravitationally in a

150
00:06:12,150 --> 00:06:10,160
title lock or whatever it is

151
00:06:13,749 --> 00:06:12,160
around the sun and your daughter said

152
00:06:14,309 --> 00:06:13,759
she wanted to get a house in the dark

153
00:06:15,990 --> 00:06:14,319
side

154
00:06:17,990 --> 00:06:16,000
so she could sleep in a house on the

155
00:06:20,309 --> 00:06:18,000
light side oh yeah that's

156
00:06:22,550 --> 00:06:20,319
actually the nearest star is proxima

157
00:06:24,950 --> 00:06:22,560
centauri it's four light years away

158
00:06:26,469 --> 00:06:24,960
and it's a dwarf star and next to it

159
00:06:28,629 --> 00:06:26,479
there is a planet which is

160
00:06:29,830 --> 00:06:28,639
20 times closer to that star than the

161
00:06:33,110 --> 00:06:29,840
earth is from the sun

162
00:06:33,990 --> 00:06:33,120
and because it's so close uh it's

163
00:06:36,150 --> 00:06:34,000
tidally locked

164
00:06:38,390 --> 00:06:36,160
just like the moon is to the earth and

165
00:06:40,230 --> 00:06:38,400
it goes the same side at all times so

166
00:06:42,870 --> 00:06:40,240
there is a permanent dayside

167
00:06:44,790 --> 00:06:42,880
and a permanent night side and actually

168
00:06:47,749 --> 00:06:44,800
it's just at the right distance

169
00:06:48,070 --> 00:06:47,759
to have room temperature on the day side

170
00:06:49,830 --> 00:06:48,080
so

171
00:06:51,189 --> 00:06:49,840
my daughter said that if we ever go

172
00:06:53,510 --> 00:06:51,199
there you know

173
00:06:54,710 --> 00:06:53,520
we should have she would like to have

174
00:06:56,390 --> 00:06:54,720
two houses

175
00:06:57,909 --> 00:06:56,400
one in the permanent night side where

176
00:07:00,150 --> 00:06:57,919
she can sleep

177
00:07:01,110 --> 00:07:00,160
and the other one in the permanent

178
00:07:03,830 --> 00:07:01,120
sunset

179
00:07:04,309 --> 00:07:03,840
strip between the night and day sides so

180
00:07:06,070 --> 00:07:04,319
that

181
00:07:07,430 --> 00:07:06,080
she can have her vacation with the

182
00:07:09,749 --> 00:07:07,440
sunset forever

183
00:07:11,430 --> 00:07:09,759
you know that yeah yeah that's great

184
00:07:12,390 --> 00:07:11,440
well if she was really thinking she'd

185
00:07:14,390 --> 00:07:12,400
build a large

186
00:07:18,070 --> 00:07:14,400
house right on the border so she'd go

187
00:07:21,990 --> 00:07:21,510
but but anyway um in a situation like

188
00:07:23,670 --> 00:07:22,000
that

189
00:07:25,430 --> 00:07:23,680
and i'm going to ask before we get into

190
00:07:26,469 --> 00:07:25,440
the topic tonight i have a couple of

191
00:07:28,469 --> 00:07:26,479
questions um

192
00:07:30,550 --> 00:07:28,479
some that i asked any astronomer that's

193
00:07:33,029 --> 00:07:30,560
on the show um

194
00:07:34,790 --> 00:07:33,039
but when it when a planet is la i mean

195
00:07:35,589 --> 00:07:34,800
when yeah when a planet is locked like

196
00:07:38,070 --> 00:07:35,599
that

197
00:07:40,230 --> 00:07:38,080
is it does it have like an it's hottest

198
00:07:43,029 --> 00:07:40,240
at the equator that type of thing

199
00:07:45,110 --> 00:07:43,039
and then uh it's it's hottest on the day

200
00:07:46,230 --> 00:07:45,120
side at the center of the day side which

201
00:07:48,390 --> 00:07:46,240
is permanent

202
00:07:50,230 --> 00:07:48,400
facing star and then it's cordless in

203
00:07:52,550 --> 00:07:50,240
the opposite direction and

204
00:07:54,710 --> 00:07:52,560
uh you should in this case by the way

205
00:07:57,589 --> 00:07:54,720
the proxima b this planet

206
00:07:58,550 --> 00:07:57,599
is moving around the star every 11 days

207
00:08:00,869 --> 00:07:58,560
so if there are any

208
00:08:02,950 --> 00:08:00,879
living creatures there they celebrate

209
00:08:05,270 --> 00:08:02,960
birthdays every 11 days

210
00:08:06,469 --> 00:08:05,280
there are lots of parties over there and

211
00:08:09,270 --> 00:08:06,479
to keep in mind is

212
00:08:10,469 --> 00:08:09,280
the star is a dwarf star 12 of the mass

213
00:08:13,029 --> 00:08:10,479
of the sun so

214
00:08:14,390 --> 00:08:13,039
it's cool it's about half the surface

215
00:08:17,189 --> 00:08:14,400
temperature of the sun

216
00:08:19,270 --> 00:08:17,199
and it emits mostly infrared radiation

217
00:08:22,309 --> 00:08:19,280
so we are used to visible light

218
00:08:24,230 --> 00:08:22,319
because our eyes were adjusted to

219
00:08:26,309 --> 00:08:24,240
the type of light that the sun produces

220
00:08:28,070 --> 00:08:26,319
it helps us when it bounces off

221
00:08:29,670 --> 00:08:28,080
predators we can escape from those

222
00:08:31,830 --> 00:08:29,680
predators if we have eyes that are

223
00:08:34,949 --> 00:08:31,840
sensitive to visible light

224
00:08:35,670 --> 00:08:34,959
and so for survival our eyes adapted to

225
00:08:38,949 --> 00:08:35,680
the light that

226
00:08:41,029 --> 00:08:38,959
our sun produces so next to proxima

227
00:08:43,670 --> 00:08:41,039
centauri the any creature would have

228
00:08:44,870 --> 00:08:43,680
infrared eyes and that may explain why

229
00:08:47,670 --> 00:08:44,880
they never visit us

230
00:08:48,870 --> 00:08:47,680
because interstellar tourist agencies

231
00:08:51,829 --> 00:08:48,880
that are looking

232
00:08:54,310 --> 00:08:51,839
uh for destinations will never find the

233
00:08:56,389 --> 00:08:54,320
earth as attractive because

234
00:08:57,350 --> 00:08:56,399
you know the visible light that we have

235
00:08:59,670 --> 00:08:57,360
here hurts

236
00:09:00,870 --> 00:08:59,680
the eyes of those creatures that have

237
00:09:03,990 --> 00:09:00,880
infrared eyes and

238
00:09:05,910 --> 00:09:04,000
also our grass is uh green

239
00:09:07,670 --> 00:09:05,920
in the vacation sites that we can offer

240
00:09:10,710 --> 00:09:07,680
whereas they're used to

241
00:09:12,310 --> 00:09:10,720
dark red grass so that may explain why

242
00:09:14,389 --> 00:09:12,320
they never visit us and

243
00:09:16,070 --> 00:09:14,399
we have to go there and entice them with

244
00:09:19,269 --> 00:09:16,080
a water-based drink

245
00:09:20,710 --> 00:09:19,279
yeah there you go now what about in a

246
00:09:22,710 --> 00:09:20,720
situation like that would it

247
00:09:24,550 --> 00:09:22,720
create strange weather patterns to have

248
00:09:27,670 --> 00:09:24,560
a locked planet like that

249
00:09:30,310 --> 00:09:27,680
oh it's cold on one side and yeah

250
00:09:30,790 --> 00:09:30,320
i wouldn't have think an atmosphere and

251
00:09:32,550 --> 00:09:30,800
yeah

252
00:09:35,350 --> 00:09:32,560
it's quite unusual because if you

253
00:09:37,269 --> 00:09:35,360
imagine life on such a planet then

254
00:09:38,949 --> 00:09:37,279
obviously the the forms of life you have

255
00:09:40,389 --> 00:09:38,959
on the permanent day side will be very

256
00:09:41,829 --> 00:09:40,399
different than those on the permanent

257
00:09:44,150 --> 00:09:41,839
night side and

258
00:09:45,430 --> 00:09:44,160
uh also the weather patterns will be

259
00:09:47,430 --> 00:09:45,440
quite different and

260
00:09:48,710 --> 00:09:47,440
now we are not at all sure that such a

261
00:09:51,030 --> 00:09:48,720
planet can

262
00:09:52,070 --> 00:09:51,040
have life on it because it's so close to

263
00:09:55,110 --> 00:09:52,080
the star that

264
00:09:58,310 --> 00:09:55,120
its atmosphere can be ripped uh

265
00:09:59,750 --> 00:09:58,320
by the stellar wind um so um

266
00:10:01,590 --> 00:09:59,760
it's not at all clear that it could

267
00:10:03,110 --> 00:10:01,600
possess an atmosphere and then of course

268
00:10:03,990 --> 00:10:03,120
if you don't have an atmosphere as we

269
00:10:06,710 --> 00:10:04,000
know from the

270
00:10:08,230 --> 00:10:06,720
example of mars then you can't have

271
00:10:09,430 --> 00:10:08,240
liquid water on the surface of the

272
00:10:13,430 --> 00:10:09,440
planet so

273
00:10:17,190 --> 00:10:13,440
uh you know we are living on a planet

274
00:10:19,670 --> 00:10:17,200
around the sunlight around the sun and

275
00:10:21,269 --> 00:10:19,680
that that kind of a star is rare in the

276
00:10:22,870 --> 00:10:21,279
milky way galaxy most stars are like

277
00:10:25,190 --> 00:10:22,880
proxima centauri and

278
00:10:27,110 --> 00:10:25,200
maybe there is a reason for that maybe

279
00:10:29,030 --> 00:10:27,120
you know if you are too close to a star

280
00:10:31,190 --> 00:10:29,040
like proxima centauri then

281
00:10:33,509 --> 00:10:31,200
you can a planet cannot maintain its

282
00:10:35,990 --> 00:10:33,519
atmosphere you can't have life so

283
00:10:38,949 --> 00:10:36,000
we don't fully understand how easy it is

284
00:10:42,069 --> 00:10:38,959
to live around the dwarf stars

285
00:10:45,269 --> 00:10:42,079
right right um there's so many different

286
00:10:47,190 --> 00:10:45,279
variables that can make whatever rose

287
00:10:48,550 --> 00:10:47,200
if there's life there the evolution of

288
00:10:50,389 --> 00:10:48,560
that life be so different

289
00:10:51,590 --> 00:10:50,399
you know in so many ways i would think

290
00:10:54,710 --> 00:10:51,600
but i so the

291
00:10:56,470 --> 00:10:54,720
question just as a general uh you know i

292
00:10:59,190 --> 00:10:56,480
was asked many times

293
00:11:00,230 --> 00:10:59,200
how do i envision other forms of life

294
00:11:02,790 --> 00:11:00,240
and um

295
00:11:04,870 --> 00:11:02,800
you know when we meet another person

296
00:11:06,710 --> 00:11:04,880
that we've never met before

297
00:11:08,790 --> 00:11:06,720
we we can pretty much anticipate that

298
00:11:11,030 --> 00:11:08,800
the person looks like us because we

299
00:11:13,030 --> 00:11:11,040
share a common genetic heritage

300
00:11:15,430 --> 00:11:13,040
but when we meet life from another

301
00:11:17,430 --> 00:11:15,440
planet that had no contact with earth

302
00:11:18,710 --> 00:11:17,440
i'm not talking about mars that exchange

303
00:11:21,190 --> 00:11:18,720
rocks with earth but

304
00:11:23,030 --> 00:11:21,200
a planet very far away of another star

305
00:11:25,350 --> 00:11:23,040
it could be shocking for us to see

306
00:11:26,710 --> 00:11:25,360
what that life is because you know you

307
00:11:29,670 --> 00:11:26,720
can start from the same

308
00:11:30,310 --> 00:11:29,680
chemicals and then end up in a very

309
00:11:32,710 --> 00:11:30,320
different

310
00:11:34,230 --> 00:11:32,720
product you know just like when you open

311
00:11:35,910 --> 00:11:34,240
recipe books for cakes

312
00:11:37,590 --> 00:11:35,920
you can start from the same ingredients

313
00:11:40,069 --> 00:11:37,600
and depending on how you mix them

314
00:11:41,670 --> 00:11:40,079
and how much heat you apply you get very

315
00:11:44,870 --> 00:11:41,680
different cakes

316
00:11:48,230 --> 00:11:44,880
right right um you know is

317
00:11:49,590 --> 00:11:48,240
bipedal optimal in uh i don't know you

318
00:11:51,110 --> 00:11:49,600
call it binocular vision whatever you

319
00:11:53,750 --> 00:11:51,120
call it when you have two eyes

320
00:11:54,790 --> 00:11:53,760
is that optimal i don't know it again it

321
00:11:55,829 --> 00:11:54,800
depends on the

322
00:11:58,150 --> 00:11:55,839
eye because it gives you

323
00:12:00,150 --> 00:11:58,160
three-dimensional vision um

324
00:12:01,509 --> 00:12:00,160
uh but the three eyes would have been

325
00:12:03,430 --> 00:12:01,519
even better because then you can see

326
00:12:06,150 --> 00:12:03,440
back

327
00:12:07,509 --> 00:12:06,160
yeah there you go for predators um so

328
00:12:10,310 --> 00:12:07,519
the question i like to ask

329
00:12:11,670 --> 00:12:10,320
astronomers on the show is uh and i know

330
00:12:14,470 --> 00:12:11,680
you have an open mind but

331
00:12:15,110 --> 00:12:14,480
i i may be asking you to to for your

332
00:12:17,829 --> 00:12:15,120
opinion

333
00:12:19,910 --> 00:12:17,839
you may not want to give that but do you

334
00:12:20,790 --> 00:12:19,920
think it's possible that the big bang

335
00:12:24,069 --> 00:12:20,800
theory

336
00:12:26,310 --> 00:12:24,079
is something and it is flawed

337
00:12:28,150 --> 00:12:26,320
oh um well the clearly the big bang

338
00:12:29,829 --> 00:12:28,160
theory is is not complete

339
00:12:31,829 --> 00:12:29,839
because we don't know what happened

340
00:12:33,990 --> 00:12:31,839
before the big bang the big bang

341
00:12:35,269 --> 00:12:34,000
i mean is simply a point in time if we

342
00:12:37,750 --> 00:12:35,279
go back in time

343
00:12:39,910 --> 00:12:37,760
we see forward with time and we see the

344
00:12:42,310 --> 00:12:39,920
universe expanding so we go back in time

345
00:12:44,069 --> 00:12:42,320
and the universe was contracting and

346
00:12:46,230 --> 00:12:44,079
there is a point in time when the

347
00:12:47,910 --> 00:12:46,240
density of matter was infinite and that

348
00:12:49,910 --> 00:12:47,920
we call the big bang and

349
00:12:51,829 --> 00:12:49,920
the problem is that einstein's theory of

350
00:12:52,790 --> 00:12:51,839
gravity breaks down at that point in

351
00:12:55,829 --> 00:12:52,800
time because

352
00:12:57,750 --> 00:12:55,839
the the curvature of space and time

353
00:12:59,829 --> 00:12:57,760
diverges becomes infinite and the theory

354
00:13:01,190 --> 00:12:59,839
breaks down and we understand why it

355
00:13:02,949 --> 00:13:01,200
breaks down it's

356
00:13:05,030 --> 00:13:02,959
because it doesn't incorporate a very

357
00:13:07,030 --> 00:13:05,040
important pillar of modern physics which

358
00:13:09,750 --> 00:13:07,040
is called quantum mechanics

359
00:13:11,350 --> 00:13:09,760
so we can't really tell what happened

360
00:13:14,710 --> 00:13:11,360
before the big bang and

361
00:13:16,949 --> 00:13:14,720
so right now the big bang theory is

362
00:13:18,829 --> 00:13:16,959
is really incomplete and we don't know

363
00:13:21,750 --> 00:13:18,839
exactly what happened around that

364
00:13:24,069 --> 00:13:21,760
early point in time and

365
00:13:25,110 --> 00:13:24,079
uh it would have been nice to figure it

366
00:13:27,269 --> 00:13:25,120
out you know

367
00:13:29,269 --> 00:13:27,279
just as a thought experiment let me

368
00:13:31,350 --> 00:13:29,279
mention one possibility

369
00:13:32,629 --> 00:13:31,360
imagine that we had this theory of

370
00:13:35,590 --> 00:13:32,639
quantum gravity

371
00:13:37,269 --> 00:13:35,600
ourself then we could have in principle

372
00:13:38,389 --> 00:13:37,279
created the baby universe in the

373
00:13:41,910 --> 00:13:38,399
laboratory

374
00:13:43,990 --> 00:13:41,920
uh and then if we were able to do that

375
00:13:46,150 --> 00:13:44,000
you could imagine that perhaps the big

376
00:13:48,150 --> 00:13:46,160
bang started from another laboratory of

377
00:13:50,310 --> 00:13:48,160
another civilization so

378
00:13:51,990 --> 00:13:50,320
just like humans have babies that have

379
00:13:54,629 --> 00:13:52,000
babies that have babies

380
00:13:55,910 --> 00:13:54,639
you can resolve the issue of the big

381
00:13:58,389 --> 00:13:55,920
bang by

382
00:14:00,230 --> 00:13:58,399
connecting the umbilical cord of our

383
00:14:02,389 --> 00:14:00,240
universe to a laboratory of another

384
00:14:05,110 --> 00:14:02,399
civilization that existed

385
00:14:07,189 --> 00:14:05,120
before us and so forth and uh you know

386
00:14:09,590 --> 00:14:07,199
that's one possibility

387
00:14:11,509 --> 00:14:09,600
wow yeah and the other thing about time

388
00:14:13,110 --> 00:14:11,519
you know did time begin then or was

389
00:14:15,590 --> 00:14:13,120
there time before that

390
00:14:17,110 --> 00:14:15,600
the problem is as i said that our

391
00:14:18,629 --> 00:14:17,120
current theory which

392
00:14:21,189 --> 00:14:18,639
the prevailing theory is einstein's

393
00:14:23,189 --> 00:14:21,199
theory of gravity is incomplete and

394
00:14:24,710 --> 00:14:23,199
and as a result we can't really say much

395
00:14:26,550 --> 00:14:24,720
about what

396
00:14:28,550 --> 00:14:26,560
was happening around the big bang

397
00:14:31,189 --> 00:14:28,560
because we know that quantum mechanics

398
00:14:31,670 --> 00:14:31,199
quantum mechanical effects uh were

399
00:14:34,230 --> 00:14:31,680
really

400
00:14:35,829 --> 00:14:34,240
uh crucial at that time and we don't

401
00:14:37,670 --> 00:14:35,839
have a good theory of quantum gravity

402
00:14:40,470 --> 00:14:37,680
there are attempts to do that

403
00:14:42,310 --> 00:14:40,480
uh but so far they were not very

404
00:14:43,269 --> 00:14:42,320
predictive as to what happened around

405
00:14:45,189 --> 00:14:43,279
the big bang so

406
00:14:46,870 --> 00:14:45,199
you know the nice thing about science is

407
00:14:49,590 --> 00:14:46,880
that you're allowed to say

408
00:14:50,870 --> 00:14:49,600
i don't know that that's a valid answer

409
00:14:52,949 --> 00:14:50,880
if you just don't know

410
00:14:53,910 --> 00:14:52,959
you can say i don't know i mean in other

411
00:14:55,670 --> 00:14:53,920
areas

412
00:14:58,230 --> 00:14:55,680
for example in politics you know it's

413
00:15:01,030 --> 00:14:58,240
not it's not common that the politician

414
00:15:03,990 --> 00:15:01,040
would say i don't know

415
00:15:04,389 --> 00:15:04,000
that's true that's true um now you were

416
00:15:06,550 --> 00:15:04,399
on

417
00:15:08,629 --> 00:15:06,560
uh the chair of the advisory board for

418
00:15:10,150 --> 00:15:08,639
the is it called the breakthrough star

419
00:15:12,790 --> 00:15:10,160
shot is that what it was called right

420
00:15:13,509 --> 00:15:12,800
yes and uh stephen hawking was involved

421
00:15:16,470 --> 00:15:13,519
and yuri

422
00:15:17,670 --> 00:15:16,480
i i think he was involved was he uh well

423
00:15:21,670 --> 00:15:17,680
some part of it sorry

424
00:15:24,150 --> 00:15:21,680
um back in may 2015 um

425
00:15:25,910 --> 00:15:24,160
a black limousine parked in front of the

426
00:15:27,189 --> 00:15:25,920
center for astrophysics at harvard

427
00:15:30,230 --> 00:15:27,199
university and

428
00:15:32,470 --> 00:15:30,240
uh out of it came yuri milner an

429
00:15:35,269 --> 00:15:32,480
entrepreneur for silicon valley

430
00:15:36,550 --> 00:15:35,279
and he came to my office sat on the sofa

431
00:15:39,910 --> 00:15:36,560
in front of me

432
00:15:43,030 --> 00:15:39,920
and asked me am i interested in leading

433
00:15:45,350 --> 00:15:43,040
a project to visit the nearest star

434
00:15:47,350 --> 00:15:45,360
and i knew that that star is four light

435
00:15:48,230 --> 00:15:47,360
years away so it takes like four years

436
00:15:51,670 --> 00:15:48,240
to get there

437
00:15:54,949 --> 00:15:51,680
or to get from there to us uh you know

438
00:15:58,550 --> 00:15:54,959
only now there anyone there gets

439
00:15:59,590 --> 00:15:58,560
the signal about the 2016 elections in

440
00:16:03,189 --> 00:15:59,600
the us

441
00:16:06,629 --> 00:16:03,199
it's really a long time uh and then so

442
00:16:08,870 --> 00:16:06,639
i realized he wanted the travel to take

443
00:16:10,870 --> 00:16:08,880
a couple of decades within his lifetime

444
00:16:13,749 --> 00:16:10,880
which is roughly my lifetime

445
00:16:15,350 --> 00:16:13,759
we're the same age and so i realized

446
00:16:17,030 --> 00:16:15,360
that's a challenge because you need a

447
00:16:18,389 --> 00:16:17,040
spacecraft that moves at the fifth of

448
00:16:21,110 --> 00:16:18,399
the speed of light

449
00:16:23,030 --> 00:16:21,120
which is roughly a thousand times faster

450
00:16:26,870 --> 00:16:23,040
than all the rockets that we have

451
00:16:27,829 --> 00:16:26,880
sent in our history so i told him i need

452
00:16:31,030 --> 00:16:27,839
to look into that

453
00:16:31,509 --> 00:16:31,040
then came up with a recommendation to

454
00:16:34,230 --> 00:16:31,519
use

455
00:16:35,110 --> 00:16:34,240
one technology that can potentially work

456
00:16:38,790 --> 00:16:35,120
which is

457
00:16:41,269 --> 00:16:38,800
a sail pushed by light so just a very

458
00:16:45,590 --> 00:16:43,910
piece of material like a sail on a boat

459
00:16:46,470 --> 00:16:45,600
except that it's being pushed by light

460
00:16:48,310 --> 00:16:46,480
bouncing off

461
00:16:50,150 --> 00:16:48,320
it and the idea is to use a very

462
00:16:52,389 --> 00:16:50,160
powerful laser uh

463
00:16:55,749 --> 00:16:52,399
about a hundred gigawatt that is focused

464
00:16:58,790 --> 00:16:55,759
on a sale the size of a person roughly

465
00:17:00,710 --> 00:16:58,800
um that weighs about a gram and then

466
00:17:03,189 --> 00:17:00,720
this sale would reach a fifth of the

467
00:17:05,110 --> 00:17:03,199
speed of light after a few minutes

468
00:17:06,789 --> 00:17:05,120
across the distance that is five times

469
00:17:08,949 --> 00:17:06,799
the distance to the moon

470
00:17:09,829 --> 00:17:08,959
and that was the concept that we came up

471
00:17:12,710 --> 00:17:09,839
with and

472
00:17:14,630 --> 00:17:12,720
and then stephen hawking came for the

473
00:17:16,949 --> 00:17:14,640
public announcement of this project in

474
00:17:18,470 --> 00:17:16,959
new york city

475
00:17:20,069 --> 00:17:18,480
i actually i have a couple questions

476
00:17:21,750 --> 00:17:20,079
about that because i i'm just trying to

477
00:17:23,669 --> 00:17:21,760
figure out how these things work

478
00:17:25,429 --> 00:17:23,679
uh and maybe i'm picturing it totally

479
00:17:28,549 --> 00:17:25,439
wrong but i'm picturing

480
00:17:30,789 --> 00:17:28,559
that this laser has to stay on

481
00:17:33,110 --> 00:17:30,799
the sail or does it blink on and off it

482
00:17:33,669 --> 00:17:33,120
stays on well it stays on it for a few

483
00:17:36,950 --> 00:17:33,679
minutes

484
00:17:37,750 --> 00:17:36,960
and then the sail at 20 the speed of

485
00:17:40,470 --> 00:17:37,760
light will take

486
00:17:42,070 --> 00:17:40,480
20 years to reach the destination of the

487
00:17:44,470 --> 00:17:42,080
nearest star so

488
00:17:47,270 --> 00:17:44,480
so it's a very short period of time

489
00:17:49,110 --> 00:17:47,280
during which the sail is pushing

490
00:17:51,190 --> 00:17:49,120
is being pushed by the laser and then

491
00:17:54,549 --> 00:17:51,200
after that it just coasts

492
00:17:55,270 --> 00:17:54,559
so okay so it's only one time that the

493
00:17:57,350 --> 00:17:55,280
laser

494
00:17:58,950 --> 00:17:57,360
yes hits this okay because i was

495
00:17:59,990 --> 00:17:58,960
wondering how you could possibly hit it

496
00:18:02,310 --> 00:18:00,000
once it started

497
00:18:03,190 --> 00:18:02,320
traveling only when it starts because

498
00:18:05,350 --> 00:18:03,200
the point is

499
00:18:07,430 --> 00:18:05,360
it's difficult it's impossible to focus

500
00:18:10,070 --> 00:18:07,440
the laser at great distances

501
00:18:11,750 --> 00:18:10,080
you can't really focus it on the sky or

502
00:18:13,510 --> 00:18:11,760
you can do it on the sail

503
00:18:15,270 --> 00:18:13,520
only within a limited distance and

504
00:18:15,830 --> 00:18:15,280
that's what dictates the power of the

505
00:18:19,510 --> 00:18:15,840
laser

506
00:18:20,470 --> 00:18:19,520
forever then you will need very powerful

507
00:18:23,029 --> 00:18:20,480
laser you could still

508
00:18:24,789 --> 00:18:23,039
continue to push it for 20 years right

509
00:18:26,950 --> 00:18:24,799
instead you need to push it only across

510
00:18:28,710 --> 00:18:26,960
a certain distance

511
00:18:30,870 --> 00:18:28,720
and that distance is the distance over

512
00:18:32,549 --> 00:18:30,880
which you can focus the laser

513
00:18:34,070 --> 00:18:32,559
another question i had about this

514
00:18:34,549 --> 00:18:34,080
because i i did a little bit of reading

515
00:18:37,990 --> 00:18:34,559
when

516
00:18:38,549 --> 00:18:38,000
the idea first came out and how many of

517
00:18:41,110 --> 00:18:38,559
these

518
00:18:42,150 --> 00:18:41,120
solar sails would be sent approximately

519
00:18:45,270 --> 00:18:42,160
one day

520
00:18:47,990 --> 00:18:45,280
because the actual actual sale is

521
00:18:48,630 --> 00:18:48,000
is really cheap i mean it's the cost of

522
00:18:50,789 --> 00:18:48,640
a phone

523
00:18:52,150 --> 00:18:50,799
a cell phone but the most of the

524
00:18:54,390 --> 00:18:52,160
investment of funds is in the

525
00:18:57,430 --> 00:18:54,400
infrastructure of the laser

526
00:19:00,390 --> 00:18:57,440
and the you know and and the

527
00:19:01,909 --> 00:19:00,400
spacecraft that releases those uh sales

528
00:19:04,230 --> 00:19:01,919
but each sail is really

529
00:19:06,070 --> 00:19:04,240
cheap so it's a changing concept that

530
00:19:07,270 --> 00:19:06,080
each mission that you send each

531
00:19:10,310 --> 00:19:07,280
spacecraft

532
00:19:12,710 --> 00:19:10,320
is very you know it is it does not cost

533
00:19:15,830 --> 00:19:12,720
much and you can do it once a day

534
00:19:19,430 --> 00:19:15,840
and so say in 20 years

535
00:19:22,789 --> 00:19:19,440
these reach um that that star

536
00:19:24,390 --> 00:19:22,799
system how do they signal back i mean it

537
00:19:25,029 --> 00:19:24,400
would take doesn't it take that long to

538
00:19:27,190 --> 00:19:25,039
come back

539
00:19:28,150 --> 00:19:27,200
i mean well it takes four years for the

540
00:19:31,750 --> 00:19:28,160
signal to come back

541
00:19:33,669 --> 00:19:31,760
i see that's the speed of light and

542
00:19:35,510 --> 00:19:33,679
but you are right that it's a great

543
00:19:37,190 --> 00:19:35,520
challenge the communication across such

544
00:19:39,510 --> 00:19:37,200
a vast distance

545
00:19:41,909 --> 00:19:39,520
is not simple and you need a big

546
00:19:42,870 --> 00:19:41,919
telescope on earth to collect the signal

547
00:19:45,909 --> 00:19:42,880
that comes back

548
00:19:47,029 --> 00:19:45,919
and to read it and the idea is to take a

549
00:19:49,990 --> 00:19:47,039
photograph

550
00:19:51,270 --> 00:19:50,000
of that planet and see what's on it now

551
00:19:53,190 --> 00:19:51,280
of course the same

552
00:19:54,310 --> 00:19:53,200
spacecraft can be used also within the

553
00:19:56,870 --> 00:19:54,320
solar system much

554
00:19:58,549 --> 00:19:56,880
shorter distances we could get we could

555
00:20:01,350 --> 00:19:58,559
visit the pluto

556
00:20:02,789 --> 00:20:01,360
within a few days uh instead of nine and

557
00:20:05,270 --> 00:20:02,799
a half years that it

558
00:20:07,350 --> 00:20:05,280
horizon to do it yeah and so you can

559
00:20:09,029 --> 00:20:07,360
imagine a lot of other targets once this

560
00:20:11,750 --> 00:20:09,039
technology is available

561
00:20:12,950 --> 00:20:11,760
we could have chased omuamua and taken a

562
00:20:16,070 --> 00:20:12,960
photograph of it

563
00:20:17,909 --> 00:20:16,080
easily uh but with current rockets we

564
00:20:21,270 --> 00:20:17,919
could not do that

565
00:20:23,990 --> 00:20:21,280
right right and oh muammu is still

566
00:20:26,549 --> 00:20:24,000
in our solar system but heading out it

567
00:20:28,470 --> 00:20:26,559
takes it about 10 000 years to traverse

568
00:20:30,310 --> 00:20:28,480
the entire solar system so

569
00:20:31,830 --> 00:20:30,320
coming in was 10 000 years now it's

570
00:20:35,510 --> 00:20:31,840
going out

571
00:20:37,669 --> 00:20:35,520
wow but it is far enough for it to be

572
00:20:40,149 --> 00:20:37,679
extremely dim it's now

573
00:20:41,590 --> 00:20:40,159
uh a million times fainter than it was

574
00:20:44,070 --> 00:20:41,600
close to the sun

575
00:20:45,190 --> 00:20:44,080
so we cannot really observe it with any

576
00:20:47,990 --> 00:20:45,200
telescope

577
00:20:49,510 --> 00:20:48,000
uh we had our chance but we shouldn't

578
00:20:51,190 --> 00:20:49,520
worry about it too much

579
00:20:53,029 --> 00:20:51,200
because you know when i go to the

580
00:20:54,870 --> 00:20:53,039
kitchen and i see an ant

581
00:20:57,270 --> 00:20:54,880
i get alarmed because i know that there

582
00:21:00,549 --> 00:20:57,280
must be many more ants out there

583
00:21:03,350 --> 00:21:00,559
and the same with we found it

584
00:21:05,750 --> 00:21:03,360
over a few years with the pan stars

585
00:21:08,070 --> 00:21:05,760
survey telescope and

586
00:21:09,830 --> 00:21:08,080
we should find a similar object every

587
00:21:12,070 --> 00:21:09,840
few years with pan stars but

588
00:21:14,310 --> 00:21:12,080
in fact in less than three years the

589
00:21:16,630 --> 00:21:14,320
vera rubin observatory in chile

590
00:21:18,470 --> 00:21:16,640
will become operational and then it will

591
00:21:19,350 --> 00:21:18,480
be much more sensitive than pan stars

592
00:21:22,789 --> 00:21:19,360
and we could find an

593
00:21:23,350 --> 00:21:22,799
um like object every month and my point

594
00:21:26,470 --> 00:21:23,360
is

595
00:21:28,630 --> 00:21:26,480
uh if we find weird objects as weird as

596
00:21:31,190 --> 00:21:28,640
um

597
00:21:32,789 --> 00:21:31,200
we should contemplate sending a

598
00:21:35,430 --> 00:21:32,799
spacecraft with a camera

599
00:21:37,029 --> 00:21:35,440
that will intercept its trajectory and

600
00:21:39,669 --> 00:21:37,039
come very close to it

601
00:21:41,750 --> 00:21:39,679
and take a photograph because they say a

602
00:21:43,990 --> 00:21:41,760
picture is worth a thousand words

603
00:21:44,789 --> 00:21:44,000
actually in my case a picture is worth

604
00:21:48,870 --> 00:21:44,799
66

605
00:21:52,070 --> 00:21:48,880
000 words the number of words in my book

606
00:21:54,710 --> 00:21:52,080
i got it if if

607
00:21:55,990 --> 00:21:54,720
this has been this could possibly just

608
00:21:57,750 --> 00:21:56,000
be happening but we didn't have the

609
00:22:01,110 --> 00:21:57,760
technology to see it

610
00:22:03,029 --> 00:22:01,120
until recently yes

611
00:22:04,630 --> 00:22:03,039
so in fact there should be a lot of

612
00:22:08,310 --> 00:22:04,640
these objects in the milk

613
00:22:10,630 --> 00:22:08,320
in the in the solar system right now

614
00:22:11,590 --> 00:22:10,640
about a quadrillion of them 10 to the

615
00:22:13,270 --> 00:22:11,600
power 15

616
00:22:15,350 --> 00:22:13,280
there should be one such object for

617
00:22:16,230 --> 00:22:15,360
every volume associated with the orbit

618
00:22:19,510 --> 00:22:16,240
of the earth

619
00:22:21,270 --> 00:22:19,520
around the sun roughly speaking so um

620
00:22:22,950 --> 00:22:21,280
you know there there should be a lot of

621
00:22:26,149 --> 00:22:22,960
them and we didn't have

622
00:22:29,350 --> 00:22:26,159
a survey telescope like pan stars

623
00:22:32,470 --> 00:22:29,360
until it started operating panstas was

624
00:22:35,750 --> 00:22:32,480
initiated because congress gave

625
00:22:38,390 --> 00:22:35,760
a task to nasa to find 90 percent of all

626
00:22:41,990 --> 00:22:38,400
the near-earth objects objects

627
00:22:42,549 --> 00:22:42,000
bigger than 140 meters roughly the size

628
00:22:46,950 --> 00:22:42,559
of a

629
00:22:49,510 --> 00:22:46,960
mua that are coming close to earth

630
00:22:50,630 --> 00:22:49,520
because we know that you know 66 million

631
00:22:53,190 --> 00:22:50,640
years ago

632
00:22:55,830 --> 00:22:53,200
you know the there was a giant rock

633
00:22:58,230 --> 00:22:55,840
roughly the size of manhattan island

634
00:22:59,669 --> 00:22:58,240
that got bigger and bigger on the sky

635
00:23:02,390 --> 00:22:59,679
and the dinosaurs

636
00:23:04,390 --> 00:23:02,400
saw it coming but they couldn't do much

637
00:23:07,430 --> 00:23:04,400
even though they had huge bodies

638
00:23:08,630 --> 00:23:07,440
uh and then once it hit the ground the

639
00:23:11,510 --> 00:23:08,640
fun stopped

640
00:23:11,990 --> 00:23:11,520
and the three-quarters of all life forms

641
00:23:13,750 --> 00:23:12,000
uh

642
00:23:15,510 --> 00:23:13,760
perished at that point where it went

643
00:23:17,190 --> 00:23:15,520
extinct uh

644
00:23:18,950 --> 00:23:17,200
and we came to the scene afterwards so

645
00:23:21,510 --> 00:23:18,960
perhaps we owe our

646
00:23:23,510 --> 00:23:21,520
thanks to our gratitude to this giant

647
00:23:25,270 --> 00:23:23,520
rock that killed the dinosaurs and other

648
00:23:26,149 --> 00:23:25,280
forms of life so that we can come into

649
00:23:27,990 --> 00:23:26,159
the scene

650
00:23:29,190 --> 00:23:28,000
but at any event we don't want it to

651
00:23:31,350 --> 00:23:29,200
happen to us

652
00:23:33,190 --> 00:23:31,360
so that's why congress the us congress

653
00:23:35,909 --> 00:23:33,200
tasked nasa to find

654
00:23:37,190 --> 00:23:35,919
uh actually objects down to one percent

655
00:23:39,830 --> 00:23:37,200
of the size of

656
00:23:40,870 --> 00:23:39,840
the chick-fil-a impactors that kill the

657
00:23:43,990 --> 00:23:40,880
dinosaurs

658
00:23:45,990 --> 00:23:44,000
uh and then panstas was

659
00:23:47,110 --> 00:23:46,000
designed to survey the sky and look for

660
00:23:49,590 --> 00:23:47,120
such objects and

661
00:23:52,310 --> 00:23:49,600
it's doing part of this task but then

662
00:23:54,950 --> 00:23:52,320
the vera rubin observatory will find 60

663
00:23:56,390 --> 00:23:54,960
of those objects bigger than 140 meters

664
00:23:58,149 --> 00:23:56,400
that will come close to earth

665
00:23:59,909 --> 00:23:58,159
so it will go two thirds of the way

666
00:24:03,029 --> 00:23:59,919
towards fulfilling

667
00:24:05,750 --> 00:24:03,039
uh the congress the congressional task

668
00:24:06,149 --> 00:24:05,760
i think that's great i mean we need i i

669
00:24:07,750 --> 00:24:06,159
mean

670
00:24:09,590 --> 00:24:07,760
i don't know if there was nothing we

671
00:24:11,990 --> 00:24:09,600
could do if something was coming at us

672
00:24:13,750 --> 00:24:12,000
hopefully we'll have technology to do

673
00:24:15,830 --> 00:24:13,760
that or hopefully we'll get off planet

674
00:24:17,590 --> 00:24:15,840
and be able to not be completely wiped

675
00:24:19,510 --> 00:24:17,600
out of something like this yeah

676
00:24:21,510 --> 00:24:19,520
the remarkable thing is the human brain

677
00:24:22,549 --> 00:24:21,520
is so small compared to the size of a

678
00:24:24,789 --> 00:24:22,559
dinosaur

679
00:24:26,149 --> 00:24:24,799
nevertheless it's much more important

680
00:24:28,070 --> 00:24:26,159
for survival

681
00:24:29,510 --> 00:24:28,080
and that's why intelligence is so

682
00:24:32,870 --> 00:24:29,520
crucial that's why

683
00:24:35,029 --> 00:24:32,880
science is really our best protector

684
00:24:37,110 --> 00:24:35,039
because it allows us to design

685
00:24:38,390 --> 00:24:37,120
telescopes that will alert us about an

686
00:24:40,310 --> 00:24:38,400
incoming rock

687
00:24:42,710 --> 00:24:40,320
and so that we can deflect it the

688
00:24:45,990 --> 00:24:42,720
dinosaurs didn't have that capability

689
00:24:49,830 --> 00:24:46,000
yeah one thing this uh i heard you

690
00:24:50,710 --> 00:24:49,840
say that um with our current telescopes

691
00:24:54,630 --> 00:24:50,720
right now

692
00:24:57,029 --> 00:24:54,640
we could probably see a uh city the size

693
00:24:59,110 --> 00:24:57,039
the lights in the city the size of tokyo

694
00:25:00,710 --> 00:24:59,120
in our solar system

695
00:25:03,190 --> 00:25:00,720
the the question i have for you the

696
00:25:06,070 --> 00:25:03,200
james webb is going to be launched

697
00:25:07,909 --> 00:25:06,080
on in october coming and i actually had

698
00:25:11,269 --> 00:25:07,919
the pleasure of actually seeing that um

699
00:25:12,710 --> 00:25:11,279
on site down there um in in baltimore

700
00:25:15,350 --> 00:25:12,720
but i just wondered

701
00:25:17,510 --> 00:25:15,360
if you knew if the james webb will have

702
00:25:20,950 --> 00:25:17,520
the capability to see

703
00:25:22,870 --> 00:25:20,960
um possible i mean can we see out of uh

704
00:25:25,909 --> 00:25:22,880
can we see lights out of our solar

705
00:25:29,190 --> 00:25:25,919
system well

706
00:25:31,190 --> 00:25:29,200
a city like like tokyo we

707
00:25:33,269 --> 00:25:31,200
could be seen three times farther with

708
00:25:34,310 --> 00:25:33,279
the james webb space telescope it has a

709
00:25:36,630 --> 00:25:34,320
larger

710
00:25:38,310 --> 00:25:36,640
mirror than the hubble space telescope

711
00:25:41,110 --> 00:25:38,320
by by a factor of a few

712
00:25:42,390 --> 00:25:41,120
and uh so all together it can see

713
00:25:44,950 --> 00:25:42,400
something that is

714
00:25:47,269 --> 00:25:44,960
fainter by about a factor of 10. and

715
00:25:50,950 --> 00:25:49,510
i did this calculation about the city of

716
00:25:54,070 --> 00:25:50,960
tokyo because we

717
00:25:56,549 --> 00:25:54,080
i attended the a conference in abu dhabi

718
00:25:57,990 --> 00:25:56,559
and the tour guide was bragging that you

719
00:26:01,190 --> 00:25:58,000
can see

720
00:26:03,909 --> 00:26:01,200
uh the lights over there from the moon

721
00:26:05,430 --> 00:26:03,919
and it was just a fun calculation to

722
00:26:08,470 --> 00:26:05,440
figure out how far away

723
00:26:10,549 --> 00:26:08,480
one can see tokyo um

724
00:26:12,149 --> 00:26:10,559
you know from earth with the best

725
00:26:14,630 --> 00:26:12,159
telescopes we have and

726
00:26:15,269 --> 00:26:14,640
turns out you can see it on pluto for

727
00:26:19,190 --> 00:26:15,279
example the

728
00:26:21,350 --> 00:26:19,200
the at the edge of the planetary uh

729
00:26:22,470 --> 00:26:21,360
array of you know within the solar

730
00:26:26,230 --> 00:26:22,480
system and

731
00:26:28,149 --> 00:26:26,240
um so of course if you have many cities

732
00:26:31,669 --> 00:26:28,159
then you can see further out so

733
00:26:34,710 --> 00:26:31,679
for example if proxima b uh on its

734
00:26:37,029 --> 00:26:34,720
dark side has a lot of city lights

735
00:26:39,590 --> 00:26:37,039
uh that are illuminated by electricity

736
00:26:40,230 --> 00:26:39,600
produced by photovoltaic cells that are

737
00:26:42,630 --> 00:26:40,240
on the day

738
00:26:44,149 --> 00:26:42,640
side you can imagine transferring

739
00:26:45,750 --> 00:26:44,159
electricity to the night side and

740
00:26:47,669 --> 00:26:45,760
illuminating it

741
00:26:49,590 --> 00:26:47,679
then we could if the illumination is

742
00:26:51,350 --> 00:26:49,600
more than a few percent

743
00:26:53,269 --> 00:26:51,360
this is actually a paper that i'm

744
00:26:54,149 --> 00:26:53,279
writing right now with an undergraduate

745
00:26:55,750 --> 00:26:54,159
student

746
00:26:57,909 --> 00:26:55,760
then you could potentially see it with

747
00:26:59,990 --> 00:26:57,919
the james webb space telescope

748
00:27:01,669 --> 00:27:00,000
so your question is very timely because

749
00:27:02,390 --> 00:27:01,679
we are working on a paper related to

750
00:27:06,149 --> 00:27:02,400
that

751
00:27:09,669 --> 00:27:06,159
wow wow no the work you did with the

752
00:27:13,029 --> 00:27:09,679
starshire or doing it did that

753
00:27:14,710 --> 00:27:13,039
influence your thoughts on this

754
00:27:16,630 --> 00:27:14,720
well obviously it expanded my

755
00:27:17,510 --> 00:27:16,640
imagination you know we can imagine only

756
00:27:20,870 --> 00:27:17,520
things that we

757
00:27:24,630 --> 00:27:20,880
know about um then in

758
00:27:27,510 --> 00:27:24,640
you can see throughout the search for uh

759
00:27:28,230 --> 00:27:27,520
intelligence in the universe because we

760
00:27:31,029 --> 00:27:28,240
started

761
00:27:33,190 --> 00:27:31,039
searching for radio signals as soon as

762
00:27:34,149 --> 00:27:33,200
radio communication was developed here

763
00:27:37,110 --> 00:27:34,159
on earth and

764
00:27:37,590 --> 00:27:37,120
radio telescopes were developed um and

765
00:27:41,669 --> 00:27:37,600
so

766
00:27:44,230 --> 00:27:41,679
and and we started searching for laser

767
00:27:45,190 --> 00:27:44,240
signals once the laser was invented and

768
00:27:47,110 --> 00:27:45,200
so forth and

769
00:27:49,110 --> 00:27:47,120
obviously the fact that i had some

770
00:27:50,070 --> 00:27:49,120
experience and knowledge about the light

771
00:27:51,909 --> 00:27:50,080
sales

772
00:27:53,430 --> 00:27:51,919
expanded my imagination so actually at

773
00:27:56,549 --> 00:27:53,440
the same time that

774
00:27:57,430 --> 00:27:56,559
i worked on the starshot concept for

775
00:28:00,630 --> 00:27:57,440
yuri

776
00:28:02,630 --> 00:28:00,640
uh i also wrote a paper about uh with a

777
00:28:05,830 --> 00:28:02,640
postdoc of mine about the fact that

778
00:28:07,990 --> 00:28:05,840
if there happens to be a beam of light

779
00:28:10,230 --> 00:28:08,000
propelling a light sail in another

780
00:28:11,510 --> 00:28:10,240
planetary system let's say in an analog

781
00:28:13,750 --> 00:28:11,520
of the earth mars

782
00:28:15,430 --> 00:28:13,760
system and we happen to be along the

783
00:28:18,149 --> 00:28:15,440
line of sight of that beam

784
00:28:18,950 --> 00:28:18,159
then as it sweeps across the sky we

785
00:28:21,830 --> 00:28:18,960
would see

786
00:28:22,149 --> 00:28:21,840
a flash of light uh because of leakage

787
00:28:27,669 --> 00:28:22,159
of

788
00:28:28,789 --> 00:28:27,679
so if you imagine a cell being propelled

789
00:28:31,190 --> 00:28:28,799
from an earth

790
00:28:31,830 --> 00:28:31,200
like planet to a mars-like planet you

791
00:28:36,230 --> 00:28:31,840
can tell

792
00:28:39,350 --> 00:28:36,240
when those two planets line up with our

793
00:28:41,029 --> 00:28:39,360
view with our line of sight and

794
00:28:43,350 --> 00:28:41,039
if you see a flash of light at that

795
00:28:45,350 --> 00:28:43,360
point in time then you know

796
00:28:47,110 --> 00:28:45,360
what it may be used for and that's a

797
00:28:50,870 --> 00:28:47,120
paper that we wrote when we were

798
00:28:53,590 --> 00:28:50,880
preparing the concept for yuri ah i see

799
00:28:55,430 --> 00:28:53,600
well i remember when i i very first

800
00:28:57,830 --> 00:28:55,440
heard of umu and i had a hard time

801
00:29:01,430 --> 00:28:57,840
saying the names sometimes i still

802
00:29:03,750 --> 00:29:01,440
mess it up but um all the depictions and

803
00:29:05,669 --> 00:29:03,760
um i did put it in your thumbnail too

804
00:29:09,510 --> 00:29:05,679
because i couldn't really find

805
00:29:09,990 --> 00:29:09,520
um the the uh what what i want to talk

806
00:29:14,549 --> 00:29:10,000
about

807
00:29:17,029 --> 00:29:14,559
and this is your thumbnail right here um

808
00:29:18,310 --> 00:29:17,039
all everything you find online is a

809
00:29:20,149 --> 00:29:18,320
cigar shape

810
00:29:21,430 --> 00:29:20,159
that's right when i'm reading your book

811
00:29:25,269 --> 00:29:21,440
i find out that

812
00:29:28,630 --> 00:29:25,279
it's 90 of a chance that it's uh

813
00:29:31,350 --> 00:29:28,640
more like a flat shape possibly a disc

814
00:29:33,110 --> 00:29:31,360
shape yes i mean the reason for the

815
00:29:35,269 --> 00:29:33,120
confusion is simple

816
00:29:37,029 --> 00:29:35,279
just imagine a piece of paper tumbling

817
00:29:40,549 --> 00:29:37,039
in the wind

818
00:29:43,510 --> 00:29:40,559
and so um

819
00:29:45,029 --> 00:29:43,520
was tumbling over eight hours and then

820
00:29:46,310 --> 00:29:45,039
when you look at the piece of paper

821
00:29:49,430 --> 00:29:46,320
projected

822
00:29:49,830 --> 00:29:49,440
uh you see something elongated uh and

823
00:29:55,190 --> 00:29:49,840
that

824
00:29:57,029 --> 00:29:55,200
10 times longer than it is wide when

825
00:29:58,630 --> 00:29:57,039
projected because the amount of light

826
00:30:01,029 --> 00:29:58,640
that was reflected from it

827
00:30:01,909 --> 00:30:01,039
was varying by a factor of 10 as it was

828
00:30:03,830 --> 00:30:01,919
tumbling

829
00:30:05,430 --> 00:30:03,840
but that's just projected on the sky it

830
00:30:08,470 --> 00:30:05,440
was 10 times longer than

831
00:30:10,230 --> 00:30:08,480
than white intrinsically it was just

832
00:30:12,549 --> 00:30:10,240
like this piece of paper

833
00:30:14,870 --> 00:30:12,559
and and you can figure it out by

834
00:30:16,789 --> 00:30:14,880
modeling the variation in the light

835
00:30:20,070 --> 00:30:16,799
so that was done in a paper that was

836
00:30:22,310 --> 00:30:20,080
published only in 2019

837
00:30:23,669 --> 00:30:22,320
and before that even the discovery paper

838
00:30:26,710 --> 00:30:23,679
of

839
00:30:28,070 --> 00:30:26,720
was pointing out that the flat shape is

840
00:30:31,750 --> 00:30:28,080
more likely

841
00:30:33,430 --> 00:30:31,760
based on what they saw but that was just

842
00:30:35,110 --> 00:30:33,440
preliminary analysis

843
00:30:36,549 --> 00:30:35,120
and then you know the person that made

844
00:30:39,190 --> 00:30:36,559
this cartoon

845
00:30:40,149 --> 00:30:39,200
uh didn't really pay attention to the

846
00:30:43,269 --> 00:30:40,159
details

847
00:30:46,789 --> 00:30:43,279
i'm not sure exactly why but made it

848
00:30:49,110 --> 00:30:46,799
look like a cigar but the reality of the

849
00:30:51,029 --> 00:30:49,120
situation is that already the

850
00:30:53,190 --> 00:30:51,039
discovery paper pointed this out and

851
00:30:55,909 --> 00:30:53,200
then there was a detailed analysis

852
00:30:59,190 --> 00:30:55,919
published in 2019 that showed that it

853
00:31:00,789 --> 00:30:59,200
is at the 90 confidence level uh pancake

854
00:31:03,990 --> 00:31:00,799
shape

855
00:31:06,310 --> 00:31:04,000
right right and it it uh

856
00:31:07,190 --> 00:31:06,320
it has i know you said it has something

857
00:31:09,830 --> 00:31:07,200
like six

858
00:31:11,029 --> 00:31:09,840
very strange properties right so i want

859
00:31:13,669 --> 00:31:11,039
to get to all of them

860
00:31:15,110 --> 00:31:13,679
and and but before we do i just want to

861
00:31:18,310 --> 00:31:15,120
take a little jag here and just

862
00:31:20,710 --> 00:31:18,320
ask you um summon

863
00:31:21,750 --> 00:31:20,720
at your level what type of ridicule are

864
00:31:23,990 --> 00:31:21,760
you getting from your

865
00:31:25,750 --> 00:31:24,000
colleagues and people in the science

866
00:31:28,789 --> 00:31:25,760
world well i should say it's

867
00:31:31,190 --> 00:31:28,799
uh significantly muted by the fact that

868
00:31:32,950 --> 00:31:31,200
you know i had a lot of leadership

869
00:31:35,750 --> 00:31:32,960
positions and

870
00:31:36,870 --> 00:31:35,760
know me and and that i worked on topics

871
00:31:40,230 --> 00:31:36,880
ranging from

872
00:31:41,990 --> 00:31:40,240
the early universe to black holes and uh

873
00:31:43,990 --> 00:31:42,000
you know i applied exactly the same

874
00:31:46,549 --> 00:31:44,000
approach to this subject as i did to

875
00:31:49,110 --> 00:31:46,559
other anomalies in other contexts

876
00:31:50,230 --> 00:31:49,120
and so you know i keep my eyes on the

877
00:31:52,789 --> 00:31:50,240
ball just like

878
00:31:55,350 --> 00:31:52,799
basketball coaches advise the players to

879
00:31:57,590 --> 00:31:55,360
do i don't care about the audience and

880
00:32:00,070 --> 00:31:57,600
i'm just talking about the evidence and

881
00:32:01,990 --> 00:32:00,080
i highly respect the scientists that try

882
00:32:03,430 --> 00:32:02,000
to explain the same evidence which is

883
00:32:05,509 --> 00:32:03,440
anomalous

884
00:32:06,789 --> 00:32:05,519
in terms of a natural origin i have no

885
00:32:08,549 --> 00:32:06,799
problem with that as

886
00:32:10,230 --> 00:32:08,559
they put some possibilities on the table

887
00:32:12,310 --> 00:32:10,240
and we can discuss them

888
00:32:14,710 --> 00:32:12,320
uh unfortunately all the possibilities

889
00:32:17,430 --> 00:32:14,720
that were put on the table uh as

890
00:32:19,029 --> 00:32:17,440
a naturally occurring object all of them

891
00:32:20,389 --> 00:32:19,039
involved something that we have never

892
00:32:22,870 --> 00:32:20,399
seen before

893
00:32:24,389 --> 00:32:22,880
and all of these possibilities uh have

894
00:32:26,630 --> 00:32:24,399
major flows

895
00:32:28,470 --> 00:32:26,640
um you know i can give you some examples

896
00:32:31,909 --> 00:32:28,480
one was that

897
00:32:34,230 --> 00:32:31,919
uh maybe it's a hydrogen iceberg

898
00:32:35,830 --> 00:32:34,240
a chunk of frozen hydrogen the size of a

899
00:32:38,230 --> 00:32:35,840
football field

900
00:32:40,149 --> 00:32:38,240
because we haven't seen a cometary tail

901
00:32:43,509 --> 00:32:40,159
and no no

902
00:32:45,830 --> 00:32:43,519
tale of gas or or dust

903
00:32:47,590 --> 00:32:45,840
was found around this object even with a

904
00:32:48,389 --> 00:32:47,600
special space telescope that looked very

905
00:32:50,789 --> 00:32:48,399
deeply

906
00:32:51,990 --> 00:32:50,799
couldn't find any carbon-based molecules

907
00:32:53,909 --> 00:32:52,000
and uh

908
00:32:55,430 --> 00:32:53,919
the idea of the hydrogen iceberg was

909
00:32:56,310 --> 00:32:55,440
that you know the hydrogen is

910
00:32:58,310 --> 00:32:56,320
transparent

911
00:33:00,070 --> 00:32:58,320
so you might get a cometary tail without

912
00:33:02,070 --> 00:33:00,080
seeing it

913
00:33:03,669 --> 00:33:02,080
but then we showed in a paper after that

914
00:33:06,070 --> 00:33:03,679
that uh in fact the

915
00:33:07,509 --> 00:33:06,080
hydrogen hydrogen iceberg would

916
00:33:08,950 --> 00:33:07,519
evaporate very quickly it wouldn't

917
00:33:11,830 --> 00:33:08,960
survive the journey

918
00:33:13,350 --> 00:33:11,840
because it will absorb starlight so that

919
00:33:15,190 --> 00:33:13,360
doesn't really work

920
00:33:16,870 --> 00:33:15,200
uh and then there was a suggestion maybe

921
00:33:19,830 --> 00:33:16,880
it's a cloud of dust particles

922
00:33:21,669 --> 00:33:19,840
um you know sort of a very fluffy cloud

923
00:33:24,549 --> 00:33:21,679
of dust that is a hundred times

924
00:33:26,470 --> 00:33:24,559
less dense than air on average like a

925
00:33:28,310 --> 00:33:26,480
dust bunny

926
00:33:29,590 --> 00:33:28,320
and the problem of that is when it gets

927
00:33:32,149 --> 00:33:29,600
close to the sun

928
00:33:33,110 --> 00:33:32,159
it will be heated by hundreds of degrees

929
00:33:35,190 --> 00:33:33,120
and then

930
00:33:37,029 --> 00:33:35,200
it will lose its integrity because it

931
00:33:40,630 --> 00:33:37,039
doesn't have the material strength

932
00:33:42,950 --> 00:33:40,640
to survive uh so and then there was

933
00:33:45,909 --> 00:33:42,960
another idea that maybe it's shrapnel

934
00:33:47,750 --> 00:33:45,919
uh you know some some fragments from uh

935
00:33:48,389 --> 00:33:47,760
the disruption of a bigger object by a

936
00:33:50,470 --> 00:33:48,399
star

937
00:33:52,789 --> 00:33:50,480
and the problem with that is that a

938
00:33:55,990 --> 00:33:52,799
tidal disruption of an object results in

939
00:33:57,830 --> 00:33:56,000
elongated pieces and and the most likely

940
00:34:01,269 --> 00:33:57,840
model for umuah was

941
00:34:02,630 --> 00:34:01,279
flat a pancake shape so uh all of these

942
00:34:04,310 --> 00:34:02,640
suggestions i mean and these are the

943
00:34:05,750 --> 00:34:04,320
only suggestions put on the table to

944
00:34:07,430 --> 00:34:05,760
explain the anomalies

945
00:34:09,190 --> 00:34:07,440
and all of them involved something that

946
00:34:12,149 --> 00:34:09,200
we've never seen before

947
00:34:12,790 --> 00:34:12,159
and all of them had flows and i said

948
00:34:15,990 --> 00:34:12,800
that

949
00:34:17,750 --> 00:34:16,000
alternatives we have

950
00:34:19,750 --> 00:34:17,760
we should definitely seriously

951
00:34:21,829 --> 00:34:19,760
contemplate the possibility of

952
00:34:23,430 --> 00:34:21,839
an artificial origin and of course there

953
00:34:25,909 --> 00:34:23,440
was a huge backlash

954
00:34:26,710 --> 00:34:25,919
against that possibility most people did

955
00:34:28,710 --> 00:34:26,720
not attend

956
00:34:30,310 --> 00:34:28,720
to the anomalies they just didn't want

957
00:34:32,550 --> 00:34:30,320
it to be on the table

958
00:34:34,470 --> 00:34:32,560
uh because it takes them out of their

959
00:34:36,710 --> 00:34:34,480
comfort zone you know and

960
00:34:38,310 --> 00:34:36,720
there was there was a seminar at harvard

961
00:34:39,829 --> 00:34:38,320
about the mua muai and when i left the

962
00:34:41,829 --> 00:34:39,839
room with a colleague of mine that

963
00:34:44,869 --> 00:34:41,839
worked on rocks for decades

964
00:34:48,069 --> 00:34:44,879
he said this object is so weird

965
00:34:49,750 --> 00:34:48,079
i wish it never existed and to me that

966
00:34:51,990 --> 00:34:49,760
was appalling because when

967
00:34:54,310 --> 00:34:52,000
nature gives you evidence that is not

968
00:34:55,990 --> 00:34:54,320
lining up with what you expected

969
00:34:57,750 --> 00:34:56,000
that's actually an opportunity to learn

970
00:34:59,750 --> 00:34:57,760
something new

971
00:35:00,870 --> 00:34:59,760
and you should actually be thrilled at

972
00:35:03,430 --> 00:35:00,880
such but

973
00:35:04,950 --> 00:35:03,440
somehow many of my colleagues prefer

974
00:35:07,829 --> 00:35:04,960
science to be boring

975
00:35:09,190 --> 00:35:07,839
not to be exciting and i don't i don't

976
00:35:11,430 --> 00:35:09,200
fully understand that

977
00:35:13,030 --> 00:35:11,440
and you know one possible reason is they

978
00:35:14,310 --> 00:35:13,040
worry about their reputation they don't

979
00:35:16,069 --> 00:35:14,320
want to take risks

980
00:35:18,470 --> 00:35:16,079
they don't want to put any skin in the

981
00:35:21,109 --> 00:35:18,480
game but that goes contrary to

982
00:35:23,109 --> 00:35:21,119
innovation in science because

983
00:35:24,870 --> 00:35:23,119
you know just like kids you have to put

984
00:35:26,710 --> 00:35:24,880
skin in the game because

985
00:35:29,109 --> 00:35:26,720
otherwise you don't learn anything new i

986
00:35:31,430 --> 00:35:29,119
mean einstein was wrong three times

987
00:35:32,790 --> 00:35:31,440
in the last decade of his career he said

988
00:35:34,550 --> 00:35:32,800
that black holes don't exist

989
00:35:36,470 --> 00:35:34,560
gravitational waves don't exist

990
00:35:38,310 --> 00:35:36,480
and quantum mechanics doesn't have a

991
00:35:40,790 --> 00:35:38,320
spooky action at the distance and

992
00:35:42,630 --> 00:35:40,800
all three were proven wrong by

993
00:35:44,790 --> 00:35:42,640
experiments that took place later

994
00:35:47,190 --> 00:35:44,800
but that's fine i mean when you work at

995
00:35:49,510 --> 00:35:47,200
the frontier you make mistakes sometimes

996
00:35:51,109 --> 00:35:49,520
uh however if your objective is to

997
00:35:53,270 --> 00:35:51,119
always be right

998
00:35:55,190 --> 00:35:53,280
then obviously you would retreat to a

999
00:35:55,670 --> 00:35:55,200
place where you never put skin in the

1000
00:35:59,030 --> 00:35:55,680
game

1001
00:36:02,069 --> 00:35:59,040
you never take any risks you always sit

1002
00:36:02,390 --> 00:36:02,079
in your comfort zone and i mean you can

1003
00:36:04,470 --> 00:36:02,400
get

1004
00:36:06,150 --> 00:36:04,480
awards and honors and and belong to

1005
00:36:08,710 --> 00:36:06,160
honor societies but

1006
00:36:09,990 --> 00:36:08,720
frankly i would hate to be in that

1007
00:36:11,990 --> 00:36:10,000
position because that's

1008
00:36:13,109 --> 00:36:12,000
boring you know and science is supposed

1009
00:36:15,829 --> 00:36:13,119
to be exciting

1010
00:36:16,390 --> 00:36:15,839
uh why should we retreat to a place that

1011
00:36:18,870 --> 00:36:16,400
is

1012
00:36:19,589 --> 00:36:18,880
uh so boring and especially given that

1013
00:36:22,470 --> 00:36:19,599
the public

1014
00:36:23,030 --> 00:36:22,480
is excited about this question of are we

1015
00:36:25,190 --> 00:36:23,040
alone

1016
00:36:26,790 --> 00:36:25,200
are we the smartest kid on the block so

1017
00:36:28,710 --> 00:36:26,800
and the public funds

1018
00:36:30,630 --> 00:36:28,720
uh science and i think science

1019
00:36:31,990 --> 00:36:30,640
scientists have an obligation to address

1020
00:36:32,630 --> 00:36:32,000
this question if they have the ability

1021
00:36:35,109 --> 00:36:32,640
to do so

1022
00:36:35,910 --> 00:36:35,119
and we suddenly have the telescopes it's

1023
00:36:38,470 --> 00:36:35,920
just that

1024
00:36:39,109 --> 00:36:38,480
this kind of research is not funded uh

1025
00:36:42,069 --> 00:36:39,119
much and

1026
00:36:44,069 --> 00:36:42,079
and then there is this ridicule uh of

1027
00:36:45,510 --> 00:36:44,079
any suggestion in this direction that i

1028
00:36:47,589 --> 00:36:45,520
find inappropriate

1029
00:36:49,510 --> 00:36:47,599
uh you know some scientists say well

1030
00:36:51,430 --> 00:36:49,520
it's a controversial subject

1031
00:36:52,550 --> 00:36:51,440
my answer to that is if you go to

1032
00:36:53,910 --> 00:36:52,560
ancient times

1033
00:36:55,750 --> 00:36:53,920
you know there was a controversial

1034
00:36:56,630 --> 00:36:55,760
suggestion that the human body has a

1035
00:37:00,069 --> 00:36:56,640
soul

1036
00:37:03,430 --> 00:37:00,079
and imagine if scientists would say

1037
00:37:05,190 --> 00:37:03,440
oh you know there is this controversy

1038
00:37:05,750 --> 00:37:05,200
about whether the human body has a soul

1039
00:37:07,270 --> 00:37:05,760
and

1040
00:37:09,510 --> 00:37:07,280
therefore we don't want to pursue

1041
00:37:11,109 --> 00:37:09,520
anatomy because

1042
00:37:13,109 --> 00:37:11,119
you know that there are some views that

1043
00:37:14,390 --> 00:37:13,119
say that it should be forbidden and

1044
00:37:16,310 --> 00:37:14,400
other way

1045
00:37:18,069 --> 00:37:16,320
views that say no you should actually

1046
00:37:18,870 --> 00:37:18,079
dissect the human body to find what's

1047
00:37:21,510 --> 00:37:18,880
inside

1048
00:37:22,069 --> 00:37:21,520
and imagine where modern science modern

1049
00:37:24,150 --> 00:37:22,079
medicine

1050
00:37:26,150 --> 00:37:24,160
would be if we were to avoid this

1051
00:37:29,270 --> 00:37:26,160
subject just because it's controversial

1052
00:37:30,790 --> 00:37:29,280
i think there is an obligation for

1053
00:37:33,430 --> 00:37:30,800
science to address

1054
00:37:34,390 --> 00:37:33,440
to clear up questions of great interest

1055
00:37:37,589 --> 00:37:34,400
to the public

1056
00:37:38,870 --> 00:37:37,599
using the scientific method you know as

1057
00:37:42,069 --> 00:37:38,880
i said in the

1058
00:37:43,030 --> 00:37:42,079
uh beginning um i think since human

1059
00:37:46,230 --> 00:37:43,040
existence

1060
00:37:48,390 --> 00:37:46,240
there's been pushback on something new

1061
00:37:49,510 --> 00:37:48,400
and it it's it's got to be fear-based i

1062
00:37:55,750 --> 00:37:49,520
don't

1063
00:37:57,430 --> 00:37:55,760
like i should know about it that type of

1064
00:37:59,270 --> 00:37:57,440
thing we're having uh we're having a

1065
00:38:01,990 --> 00:37:59,280
number of things come into the

1066
00:38:03,510 --> 00:38:02,000
uh chat as far as questions um i'll just

1067
00:38:07,030 --> 00:38:03,520
pull one up here

1068
00:38:10,230 --> 00:38:07,040
because i think you can address it

1069
00:38:12,630 --> 00:38:10,240
don is asking if um scout ship how much

1070
00:38:13,589 --> 00:38:12,640
information could they have collected

1071
00:38:17,109 --> 00:38:13,599
about earth

1072
00:38:19,270 --> 00:38:17,119
or i'll just add to that a little bit

1073
00:38:21,910 --> 00:38:19,280
was it if it was i mean would they even

1074
00:38:23,990 --> 00:38:21,920
want to i mean are we that special

1075
00:38:25,510 --> 00:38:24,000
well that's exactly my point i don't

1076
00:38:27,510 --> 00:38:25,520
think that we are sufficiently

1077
00:38:30,310 --> 00:38:27,520
interesting for anyone to worry about

1078
00:38:30,790 --> 00:38:30,320
us we had our technologies only for 100

1079
00:38:34,470 --> 00:38:30,800
years

1080
00:38:36,790 --> 00:38:34,480
about a century and omomo started its

1081
00:38:37,510 --> 00:38:36,800
trip into the solar system 10 000 years

1082
00:38:39,349 --> 00:38:37,520
ago when

1083
00:38:41,109 --> 00:38:39,359
we weren't very interesting back then

1084
00:38:43,750 --> 00:38:41,119
technologically speaking and

1085
00:38:45,750 --> 00:38:43,760
therefore i don't think that it is

1086
00:38:47,990 --> 00:38:45,760
likely to be spying on us

1087
00:38:49,670 --> 00:38:48,000
the more likely situation is it's a

1088
00:38:51,510 --> 00:38:49,680
piece of equipment that

1089
00:38:53,589 --> 00:38:51,520
you know was produced billions of years

1090
00:38:56,150 --> 00:38:53,599
ago because most of the stars

1091
00:38:58,230 --> 00:38:56,160
in the milky way galaxy form billions of

1092
00:38:59,030 --> 00:38:58,240
years before the sun the sun is the late

1093
00:39:01,510 --> 00:38:59,040
camera

1094
00:39:02,550 --> 00:39:01,520
and so if those stars had civilizations

1095
00:39:05,750 --> 00:39:02,560
like ours

1096
00:39:07,030 --> 00:39:05,760
that sent probes into space like voyager

1097
00:39:10,069 --> 00:39:07,040
1 voyager 2

1098
00:39:11,589 --> 00:39:10,079
new horizons you know these probes

1099
00:39:14,230 --> 00:39:11,599
billions of years later

1100
00:39:15,990 --> 00:39:14,240
are not operational anymore but you know

1101
00:39:16,790 --> 00:39:16,000
they are just like plastic bottles on

1102
00:39:19,910 --> 00:39:16,800
the beach

1103
00:39:22,310 --> 00:39:19,920
they may have punctures in them and

1104
00:39:24,230 --> 00:39:22,320
they are not really functional but they

1105
00:39:25,349 --> 00:39:24,240
tell us a story about the civilization

1106
00:39:27,589 --> 00:39:25,359
that made them

1107
00:39:29,510 --> 00:39:27,599
and then you know the best way to tell

1108
00:39:30,069 --> 00:39:29,520
that it's not a natural object not a

1109
00:39:32,150 --> 00:39:30,079
rock

1110
00:39:34,310 --> 00:39:32,160
is to take a close-up photograph and

1111
00:39:34,710 --> 00:39:34,320
then decide whether we want to land on

1112
00:39:36,390 --> 00:39:34,720
it

1113
00:39:38,390 --> 00:39:36,400
and put our hands on this piece of

1114
00:39:40,310 --> 00:39:38,400
technology because perhaps it's

1115
00:39:41,510 --> 00:39:40,320
a million years more advanced than the

1116
00:39:44,390 --> 00:39:41,520
technologies we have

1117
00:39:45,430 --> 00:39:44,400
right here right now yeah and you

1118
00:39:48,310 --> 00:39:45,440
mentioned in your book and i

1119
00:39:50,069 --> 00:39:48,320
i sent you an email about this too that

1120
00:39:53,109 --> 00:39:50,079
i had an astronomer on my

1121
00:39:54,390 --> 00:39:53,119
um on this show before who basically

1122
00:39:57,829 --> 00:39:54,400
said that

1123
00:40:01,030 --> 00:39:57,839
his fellows at nasa agreed

1124
00:40:02,630 --> 00:40:01,040
with him that if uh if a civilization

1125
00:40:05,030 --> 00:40:02,640
can get through the bottleneck of

1126
00:40:07,109 --> 00:40:05,040
technology without blowing themselves up

1127
00:40:08,950 --> 00:40:07,119
they'd be traveling the stars but along

1128
00:40:10,390 --> 00:40:08,960
that same line and you kind of touched

1129
00:40:13,430 --> 00:40:10,400
on that in your book

1130
00:40:15,510 --> 00:40:13,440
along that same line it's possible that

1131
00:40:18,790 --> 00:40:15,520
these billions of year-old

1132
00:40:20,390 --> 00:40:18,800
planets have had multiple civilizations

1133
00:40:21,829 --> 00:40:20,400
that might have wiped themselves out and

1134
00:40:22,870 --> 00:40:21,839
started over again i mean these things

1135
00:40:25,750 --> 00:40:22,880
are all possible

1136
00:40:26,630 --> 00:40:25,760
definitely we had a lot of cultures on

1137
00:40:27,910 --> 00:40:26,640
earth and

1138
00:40:30,150 --> 00:40:27,920
you know we can't have a phone

1139
00:40:31,670 --> 00:40:30,160
conversation with the mayans the mayan

1140
00:40:33,750 --> 00:40:31,680
culture is gone

1141
00:40:36,870 --> 00:40:33,760
and but we can find about them by

1142
00:40:39,670 --> 00:40:36,880
looking at the relics they left behind

1143
00:40:40,150 --> 00:40:39,680
through archaeological sites and the

1144
00:40:43,750 --> 00:40:40,160
that's

1145
00:40:47,030 --> 00:40:43,760
why i think the biggest message of

1146
00:40:49,430 --> 00:40:47,040
space archaeology because it allows us

1147
00:40:50,150 --> 00:40:49,440
you know to search for relics left

1148
00:40:53,670 --> 00:40:50,160
behind by

1149
00:40:55,589 --> 00:40:53,680
dead civilizations in space um and

1150
00:40:57,750 --> 00:40:55,599
in the past in the past 70 years we've

1151
00:41:00,309 --> 00:40:57,760
been looking for radio signals

1152
00:41:03,030 --> 00:41:00,319
but it's just like a phone conversation

1153
00:41:05,190 --> 00:41:03,040
you need the counterpart to be alive and

1154
00:41:07,270 --> 00:41:05,200
if most counterparts are not alive

1155
00:41:08,630 --> 00:41:07,280
anymore because they predated us by

1156
00:41:10,710 --> 00:41:08,640
billions of years

1157
00:41:12,790 --> 00:41:10,720
then searching for relics that they left

1158
00:41:15,990 --> 00:41:12,800
behind is a much better approach

1159
00:41:17,109 --> 00:41:16,000
and then what if i had funding what i

1160
00:41:19,589 --> 00:41:17,119
would fund first

1161
00:41:20,710 --> 00:41:19,599
is placing cameras within the orbit of

1162
00:41:23,510 --> 00:41:20,720
the earth around the sun

1163
00:41:25,349 --> 00:41:23,520
so that they could look up close at

1164
00:41:28,790 --> 00:41:25,359
interstellar objects that

1165
00:41:29,910 --> 00:41:28,800
come into the our neighborhood and see

1166
00:41:31,910 --> 00:41:29,920
whether there are rocks

1167
00:41:34,309 --> 00:41:31,920
natural objects or plastic bottles you

1168
00:41:36,870 --> 00:41:34,319
know artificial objects

1169
00:41:38,390 --> 00:41:36,880
and then this i would call it space

1170
00:41:40,150 --> 00:41:38,400
archaeology and

1171
00:41:41,829 --> 00:41:40,160
i think it's a new frontier that should

1172
00:41:44,230 --> 00:41:41,839
be mainstream just like

1173
00:41:46,150 --> 00:41:44,240
archaeology on earth is mainstream and

1174
00:41:47,510 --> 00:41:46,160
on every campus there should be space

1175
00:41:49,670 --> 00:41:47,520
archaeologists

1176
00:41:50,870 --> 00:41:49,680
wow how about that that's really that's

1177
00:41:53,270 --> 00:41:50,880
a great thought

1178
00:41:55,270 --> 00:41:53,280
um the one thing that i when i first

1179
00:41:57,829 --> 00:41:55,280
read about umuah

1180
00:41:59,430 --> 00:41:57,839
um the first question i had is how do we

1181
00:42:00,069 --> 00:41:59,440
know it's from another solar system and

1182
00:42:01,990 --> 00:42:00,079
i know it's

1183
00:42:04,069 --> 00:42:02,000
i do know this now but i want you to

1184
00:42:06,069 --> 00:42:04,079
explain that for the person that may not

1185
00:42:07,349 --> 00:42:06,079
right so that that is uh relatively

1186
00:42:10,710 --> 00:42:07,359
straightforward because

1187
00:42:13,670 --> 00:42:10,720
the object was moving very fast and

1188
00:42:15,430 --> 00:42:13,680
uh it could not be bound to the sun like

1189
00:42:16,470 --> 00:42:15,440
the planets are you know the earth is

1190
00:42:18,870 --> 00:42:16,480
bound to the sun

1191
00:42:21,030 --> 00:42:18,880
so when we launch a rocket away from

1192
00:42:23,190 --> 00:42:21,040
earth if we give it a high enough speed

1193
00:42:24,069 --> 00:42:23,200
it will escape the gravitational pull of

1194
00:42:27,750 --> 00:42:24,079
the earth

1195
00:42:29,990 --> 00:42:27,760
if if we throw a stone up it comes back

1196
00:42:32,470 --> 00:42:30,000
to us because we we don't throw it

1197
00:42:34,710 --> 00:42:32,480
fast enough so clearly the speed of an

1198
00:42:37,190 --> 00:42:34,720
object can tell you whether it's bound

1199
00:42:38,230 --> 00:42:37,200
by the gravitational force to earth or

1200
00:42:41,349 --> 00:42:38,240
to the sun

1201
00:42:41,910 --> 00:42:41,359
and the um was moving too fast to be

1202
00:42:45,109 --> 00:42:41,920
bound

1203
00:42:46,950 --> 00:42:45,119
to the sun now that's another weird

1204
00:42:50,710 --> 00:42:46,960
property of

1205
00:42:52,790 --> 00:42:50,720
that when you ask what where was it

1206
00:42:55,109 --> 00:42:52,800
before it arrived to the solar system

1207
00:42:55,990 --> 00:42:55,119
turns out that it was at a special frame

1208
00:42:58,630 --> 00:42:56,000
of reference

1209
00:43:00,230 --> 00:42:58,640
called the local standard of rest which

1210
00:43:01,109 --> 00:43:00,240
is the frame that you get to when you

1211
00:43:02,950 --> 00:43:01,119
average over the

1212
00:43:04,790 --> 00:43:02,960
random motions of all the stars in the

1213
00:43:08,230 --> 00:43:04,800
neighborhood of the sun

1214
00:43:10,390 --> 00:43:08,240
and then it was at rest in that frame

1215
00:43:11,349 --> 00:43:10,400
so it was sort of parked in the local

1216
00:43:13,750 --> 00:43:11,359
parking lot

1217
00:43:14,870 --> 00:43:13,760
not moving like a buoy on the surface of

1218
00:43:16,790 --> 00:43:14,880
the ocean

1219
00:43:18,950 --> 00:43:16,800
and then the solar system like a giant

1220
00:43:20,630 --> 00:43:18,960
ship bumped into it

1221
00:43:22,309 --> 00:43:20,640
because the sun moves relative to the

1222
00:43:25,349 --> 00:43:22,319
local standalone fresh

1223
00:43:26,069 --> 00:43:25,359
and only one in 500 stars is so much at

1224
00:43:29,750 --> 00:43:26,079
rest

1225
00:43:31,589 --> 00:43:29,760
in the local standard of res as um was

1226
00:43:32,950 --> 00:43:31,599
so the question is whether that tells us

1227
00:43:36,390 --> 00:43:32,960
something about

1228
00:43:38,550 --> 00:43:36,400
the purpose of umuamua perhaps it's a

1229
00:43:41,270 --> 00:43:38,560
member of a grid of objects

1230
00:43:41,750 --> 00:43:41,280
that are filling up interstellar space

1231
00:43:45,030 --> 00:43:41,760
and

1232
00:43:47,750 --> 00:43:45,040
just like a coordinate uh

1233
00:43:49,109 --> 00:43:47,760
posts and so that when you travel

1234
00:43:49,829 --> 00:43:49,119
through interstellar space you know

1235
00:43:51,750 --> 00:43:49,839
where you are

1236
00:43:53,430 --> 00:43:51,760
relative to these objects that are at

1237
00:43:56,069 --> 00:43:53,440
the local standard frames

1238
00:43:57,910 --> 00:43:56,079
or maybe it's a member of an array of

1239
00:44:00,309 --> 00:43:57,920
objects that are used for

1240
00:44:01,670 --> 00:44:00,319
uh really s relay stations for

1241
00:44:03,589 --> 00:44:01,680
communication

1242
00:44:04,790 --> 00:44:03,599
um you know that could be two

1243
00:44:06,630 --> 00:44:04,800
possibilities

1244
00:44:09,190 --> 00:44:06,640
given the fact that it's so weird in

1245
00:44:12,470 --> 00:44:09,200
terms of where it started from

1246
00:44:13,430 --> 00:44:12,480
now the speed thing i'm still stuck on

1247
00:44:15,349 --> 00:44:13,440
that just a little bit

1248
00:44:17,270 --> 00:44:15,359
because a lot of times you hear like uh

1249
00:44:19,349 --> 00:44:17,280
an asteroid's moving like 40

1250
00:44:20,309 --> 00:44:19,359
000 miles an hour or something like that

1251
00:44:22,150 --> 00:44:20,319
i think

1252
00:44:23,510 --> 00:44:22,160
did i hear this was 60 or something like

1253
00:44:26,470 --> 00:44:23,520
that i'm i'm not sure

1254
00:44:28,870 --> 00:44:26,480
but but my question is does our because

1255
00:44:30,870 --> 00:44:28,880
of our solar system do we have a speed

1256
00:44:33,349 --> 00:44:30,880
limit in our solar system

1257
00:44:34,710 --> 00:44:33,359
yeah no i mean so uh an object that

1258
00:44:37,750 --> 00:44:34,720
comes from

1259
00:44:39,349 --> 00:44:37,760
almost at rest uh bound to the sun like

1260
00:44:39,829 --> 00:44:39,359
at the edge the periphery of the solar

1261
00:44:41,510 --> 00:44:39,839
system

1262
00:44:43,030 --> 00:44:41,520
in fact there is this ore cloud of

1263
00:44:45,270 --> 00:44:43,040
objects where they

1264
00:44:46,309 --> 00:44:45,280
hardly move relative to the sun and if

1265
00:44:48,950 --> 00:44:46,319
one of these objects

1266
00:44:51,270 --> 00:44:48,960
just falls towards the sun that will

1267
00:44:53,270 --> 00:44:51,280
give you the highest speed

1268
00:44:55,589 --> 00:44:53,280
that a bound object an object that

1269
00:44:58,230 --> 00:44:55,599
belongs to the solar system can move

1270
00:44:59,030 --> 00:44:58,240
uh relative to the sun and or more more

1271
00:45:00,630 --> 00:44:59,040
was moving

1272
00:45:02,550 --> 00:45:00,640
faster than that because the solar

1273
00:45:04,069 --> 00:45:02,560
system was actually moving relative to

1274
00:45:07,990 --> 00:45:04,079
the local standard of rest

1275
00:45:10,710 --> 00:45:08,000
and bumping into it uh so think about

1276
00:45:12,390 --> 00:45:10,720
this object being at rest like a beauty

1277
00:45:13,030 --> 00:45:12,400
on the surface of the ocean and then the

1278
00:45:15,750 --> 00:45:13,040
sun

1279
00:45:16,470 --> 00:45:15,760
just like a giant ship running into it

1280
00:45:18,950 --> 00:45:16,480
at

1281
00:45:19,910 --> 00:45:18,960
20 kilometers per second or you know

1282
00:45:23,430 --> 00:45:19,920
like about

1283
00:45:24,069 --> 00:45:23,440
15 miles per second uh just bumping into

1284
00:45:39,030 --> 00:45:24,079
it

1285
00:45:39,910 --> 00:45:39,040
and so um that's from the point of view

1286
00:45:43,109 --> 00:45:39,920
of

1287
00:45:45,109 --> 00:45:43,119
seeing the sun approaching it

1288
00:45:47,270 --> 00:45:45,119
but from the point of view of the sun or

1289
00:45:49,670 --> 00:45:47,280
muammua is approaching it

1290
00:45:51,349 --> 00:45:49,680
so it doesn't really matter which frame

1291
00:45:54,390 --> 00:45:51,359
you're sitting it

1292
00:45:56,630 --> 00:45:54,400
in you just see the the same motion but

1293
00:45:58,150 --> 00:45:56,640
the reflex of the same motion in the two

1294
00:46:01,190 --> 00:45:58,160
frames

1295
00:46:03,589 --> 00:46:01,200
now when this thing went by the sun

1296
00:46:04,630 --> 00:46:03,599
there was no apparent outgassing which

1297
00:46:07,030 --> 00:46:04,640
was another

1298
00:46:08,390 --> 00:46:07,040
odd thing right so then it meant that

1299
00:46:12,069 --> 00:46:08,400
it's not a comment

1300
00:46:14,470 --> 00:46:12,079
because the comets show very clearly

1301
00:46:16,150 --> 00:46:14,480
uh evaporation of gases and in fact the

1302
00:46:17,270 --> 00:46:16,160
second interstellar object that was

1303
00:46:20,230 --> 00:46:17,280
discovered

1304
00:46:21,510 --> 00:46:20,240
by gennady borisov a russian amateur

1305
00:46:24,710 --> 00:46:21,520
astronomer

1306
00:46:27,750 --> 00:46:24,720
um which is called borisov after him

1307
00:46:31,190 --> 00:46:27,760
uh did look just like a comet and

1308
00:46:34,309 --> 00:46:31,200
so people ask me oh obviously borisov is

1309
00:46:36,950 --> 00:46:34,319
a natural interstellar object and

1310
00:46:38,870 --> 00:46:36,960
i agree with that uh and then they said

1311
00:46:41,430 --> 00:46:38,880
doesn't it convince you that

1312
00:46:43,270 --> 00:46:41,440
was also natural to which i replied you

1313
00:46:43,990 --> 00:46:43,280
know if you find a plastic bottle on the

1314
00:46:46,150 --> 00:46:44,000
beach

1315
00:46:48,390 --> 00:46:46,160
and after that you find rocks it doesn't

1316
00:46:50,550 --> 00:46:48,400
make the plastic bottle a rock

1317
00:46:52,069 --> 00:46:50,560
or another way to put it when i met my

1318
00:46:54,150 --> 00:46:52,079
wife on the first date

1319
00:46:55,829 --> 00:46:54,160
she looked special to me the fact that i

1320
00:46:58,069 --> 00:46:55,839
met many other

1321
00:46:59,670 --> 00:46:58,079
people afterwards didn't change this

1322
00:47:03,109 --> 00:46:59,680
perception so

1323
00:47:06,630 --> 00:47:03,119
in fact since uh borisov

1324
00:47:10,630 --> 00:47:06,640
looks natural then it makes um even more

1325
00:47:14,390 --> 00:47:10,640
strange right and also

1326
00:47:17,109 --> 00:47:14,400
it uh did it picked up speed like i mean

1327
00:47:18,309 --> 00:47:17,119
as if like the sail theory again right

1328
00:47:20,870 --> 00:47:18,319
after it went by the side

1329
00:47:23,589 --> 00:47:20,880
so there was an extra push uh away from

1330
00:47:26,710 --> 00:47:23,599
the sun and um

1331
00:47:27,750 --> 00:47:26,720
so that the the only plausible

1332
00:47:29,910 --> 00:47:27,760
interpretation

1333
00:47:30,790 --> 00:47:29,920
as far as i'm concerned was that it

1334
00:47:33,270 --> 00:47:30,800
reflects

1335
00:47:34,230 --> 00:47:33,280
sunlight and as a result it it's getting

1336
00:47:36,230 --> 00:47:34,240
pushed and

1337
00:47:37,910 --> 00:47:36,240
for that to be effective it had to be

1338
00:47:40,710 --> 00:47:37,920
very thin

1339
00:47:42,309 --> 00:47:40,720
like a light sail and so that it has

1340
00:47:44,230 --> 00:47:42,319
enough area

1341
00:47:45,510 --> 00:47:44,240
for its weight to be pushed by

1342
00:47:48,870 --> 00:47:45,520
reflecting sunlight

1343
00:47:51,190 --> 00:47:48,880
and in september 2020 there was another

1344
00:47:53,990 --> 00:47:51,200
object discovered

1345
00:47:55,349 --> 00:47:54,000
that also exhibited the nexra push by

1346
00:47:57,589 --> 00:47:55,359
reflecting sunlight

1347
00:47:59,510 --> 00:47:57,599
and didn't show any commentary tale it

1348
00:48:03,430 --> 00:47:59,520
was given the name 2020

1349
00:48:03,829 --> 00:48:03,440
so by the organization that gives names

1350
00:48:05,990 --> 00:48:03,839
to

1351
00:48:07,030 --> 00:48:06,000
celestial objects the minor planet

1352
00:48:10,870 --> 00:48:07,040
center

1353
00:48:12,710 --> 00:48:10,880
and then then it was discovered by pan

1354
00:48:14,630 --> 00:48:12,720
stars the same telescope and the

1355
00:48:18,230 --> 00:48:14,640
astronomers figured out that

1356
00:48:21,829 --> 00:48:18,240
actually it originated from the earth

1357
00:48:24,230 --> 00:48:21,839
in 1966 it was a rocket booster

1358
00:48:25,670 --> 00:48:24,240
of a lunar lander mission that was

1359
00:48:27,750 --> 00:48:25,680
kicked into space and

1360
00:48:29,430 --> 00:48:27,760
obviously we know that it was hollow and

1361
00:48:32,549 --> 00:48:29,440
had very thin walls

1362
00:48:33,670 --> 00:48:32,559
and that's why it was pushed by sunlight

1363
00:48:36,470 --> 00:48:33,680
because it had a lot

1364
00:48:37,670 --> 00:48:36,480
it had a lot of area for its weight and

1365
00:48:39,750 --> 00:48:37,680
so we know that's

1366
00:48:41,670 --> 00:48:39,760
that this object was definitely

1367
00:48:45,349 --> 00:48:41,680
artificial because we made it

1368
00:48:45,670 --> 00:48:45,359
uh we don't know who made um now as far

1369
00:48:49,510 --> 00:48:45,680
as

1370
00:48:51,190 --> 00:48:49,520
this thing you said it's

1371
00:48:52,790 --> 00:48:51,200
it's just under eight hours i guess it's

1372
00:48:54,790 --> 00:48:52,800
rotating um

1373
00:48:57,910 --> 00:48:54,800
but this is this is all theory there's

1374
00:49:01,030 --> 00:48:57,920
no real way to tell an aspect ratio of

1375
00:49:03,430 --> 00:49:01,040
oh no so what you can

1376
00:49:05,109 --> 00:49:03,440
argue is that the amount of light that

1377
00:49:08,790 --> 00:49:05,119
we receive is simply the

1378
00:49:10,790 --> 00:49:08,800
area that the uh object projects on the

1379
00:49:11,670 --> 00:49:10,800
sky because we see reflected sunlight

1380
00:49:13,589 --> 00:49:11,680
and so

1381
00:49:15,589 --> 00:49:13,599
variation by a factor of 10 means that

1382
00:49:16,230 --> 00:49:15,599
the mark the area of the object

1383
00:49:18,710 --> 00:49:16,240
projected

1384
00:49:20,309 --> 00:49:18,720
on the sky changes by a factor of 10 as

1385
00:49:24,309 --> 00:49:20,319
it's stumbling

1386
00:49:24,950 --> 00:49:24,319
uh unless of course the reflectivity of

1387
00:49:26,710 --> 00:49:24,960
the object

1388
00:49:28,549 --> 00:49:26,720
also changes but if you assume roughly

1389
00:49:31,829 --> 00:49:28,559
the same reflectance

1390
00:49:33,349 --> 00:49:31,839
across the uh the entire object then

1391
00:49:35,190 --> 00:49:33,359
it means that the area of the object

1392
00:49:37,270 --> 00:49:35,200
changes by a factor of them projected on

1393
00:49:40,390 --> 00:49:37,280
the sky just like a tumbling

1394
00:49:42,549 --> 00:49:40,400
piece of paper in the wind and that

1395
00:49:43,510 --> 00:49:42,559
implied that it has an extreme geometry

1396
00:49:47,349 --> 00:49:43,520
we don't see that

1397
00:49:48,470 --> 00:49:47,359
often for rocks at most they show a

1398
00:49:51,589 --> 00:49:48,480
factor of three

1399
00:49:54,470 --> 00:49:51,599
variation and um and then

1400
00:49:56,790 --> 00:49:54,480
of course there was this uh fitting to

1401
00:50:00,790 --> 00:49:56,800
the light curve that implied that

1402
00:50:02,150 --> 00:50:00,800
it's probably pancake shape flat

1403
00:50:03,550 --> 00:50:02,160
now i'm i'm going to ask you an

1404
00:50:05,270 --> 00:50:03,560
uncomfortable question

1405
00:50:08,790 --> 00:50:05,280
[Music]

1406
00:50:09,270 --> 00:50:08,800
this is a show about ufos and there has

1407
00:50:12,309 --> 00:50:09,280
been

1408
00:50:13,030 --> 00:50:12,319
a lot of people including you know the

1409
00:50:15,910 --> 00:50:13,040
navy and

1410
00:50:16,870 --> 00:50:15,920
and um pilots and things like that that

1411
00:50:19,109 --> 00:50:16,880
have ufo

1412
00:50:20,630 --> 00:50:19,119
sightings do you think it's out of the

1413
00:50:23,430 --> 00:50:20,640
possibility

1414
00:50:24,870 --> 00:50:23,440
that perhaps they have figured out how

1415
00:50:26,710 --> 00:50:24,880
to get here

1416
00:50:28,150 --> 00:50:26,720
no i don't think it's uh i don't think

1417
00:50:30,950 --> 00:50:28,160
we should have prejudice and

1418
00:50:33,109 --> 00:50:30,960
in fact i have a scientific american

1419
00:50:36,549 --> 00:50:33,119
essay on this subject

1420
00:50:40,150 --> 00:50:36,559
uh from yesterday uh so check it out

1421
00:50:42,470 --> 00:50:40,160
oh wow um and then my point about the

1422
00:50:44,390 --> 00:50:42,480
ufo reports is as follows i mean that

1423
00:50:45,109 --> 00:50:44,400
there is also everyone is anticipating

1424
00:50:48,230 --> 00:50:45,119
for

1425
00:50:51,349 --> 00:50:48,240
the declassification of the pentagon

1426
00:50:53,270 --> 00:50:51,359
documents but i'm not that obsessed with

1427
00:50:56,230 --> 00:50:53,280
old reports because

1428
00:50:58,150 --> 00:50:56,240
they rely on eyewitness testimonies and

1429
00:51:01,750 --> 00:50:58,160
on equipment that used to exist

1430
00:51:03,990 --> 00:51:01,760
decades ago and not was not optimized

1431
00:51:05,349 --> 00:51:04,000
uh for that purpose and i would much

1432
00:51:08,950 --> 00:51:05,359
rather see

1433
00:51:10,230 --> 00:51:08,960
funding of a scientific experiment

1434
00:51:12,790 --> 00:51:10,240
basically of using

1435
00:51:14,069 --> 00:51:12,800
state-of-the-art cameras and audio

1436
00:51:17,190 --> 00:51:14,079
sensor

1437
00:51:18,870 --> 00:51:17,200
and placing them in

1438
00:51:21,190 --> 00:51:18,880
the same locations where the reports

1439
00:51:23,270 --> 00:51:21,200
came from the most credible reports

1440
00:51:25,270 --> 00:51:23,280
and just recording everything out there

1441
00:51:27,589 --> 00:51:25,280
and looking for anything unusual and

1442
00:51:29,190 --> 00:51:27,599
i think that would be the best way

1443
00:51:31,349 --> 00:51:29,200
forward because

1444
00:51:32,950 --> 00:51:31,359
you never know whether you know what

1445
00:51:35,430 --> 00:51:32,960
happened decades ago and

1446
00:51:36,270 --> 00:51:35,440
why should we obsess with that the

1447
00:51:39,109 --> 00:51:36,280
science is about

1448
00:51:41,270 --> 00:51:39,119
reproducibility and if we place

1449
00:51:42,549 --> 00:51:41,280
state-of-the-art cameras and audio

1450
00:51:44,790 --> 00:51:42,559
sensors

1451
00:51:47,030 --> 00:51:44,800
we will get much better data and then

1452
00:51:48,790 --> 00:51:47,040
people will be convinced about it so

1453
00:51:50,470 --> 00:51:48,800
that that's my hope that such an

1454
00:51:53,030 --> 00:51:50,480
experiment will be funded

1455
00:51:54,710 --> 00:51:53,040
and i always give this example of you

1456
00:51:58,069 --> 00:51:54,720
know the biblical story of

1457
00:51:59,190 --> 00:51:58,079
abraham that says that abraham heard the

1458
00:52:02,549 --> 00:51:59,200
voice of god

1459
00:52:03,190 --> 00:52:02,559
and that told him to sacrifice his only

1460
00:52:06,390 --> 00:52:03,200
son

1461
00:52:07,750 --> 00:52:06,400
isaac and if abraham had a cell phone

1462
00:52:10,150 --> 00:52:07,760
with a voice memo

1463
00:52:12,150 --> 00:52:10,160
up he could have pressed the button and

1464
00:52:13,750 --> 00:52:12,160
recorded the voice of god

1465
00:52:16,150 --> 00:52:13,760
and then everyone would believe his

1466
00:52:17,430 --> 00:52:16,160
story but since he didn't have a cell

1467
00:52:19,109 --> 00:52:17,440
phone back then

1468
00:52:21,829 --> 00:52:19,119
we have to decide whether we believe

1469
00:52:25,030 --> 00:52:21,839
abraham so my point is

1470
00:52:28,470 --> 00:52:25,040
that scientific instruments remove

1471
00:52:31,109 --> 00:52:28,480
the concerns that some scientists would

1472
00:52:33,030 --> 00:52:31,119
have with eyewitness testimonies and

1473
00:52:34,390 --> 00:52:33,040
we should deploy the very best

1474
00:52:36,150 --> 00:52:34,400
instruments we have right now

1475
00:52:37,990 --> 00:52:36,160
at those locations and see what they

1476
00:52:39,750 --> 00:52:38,000
record that's all i

1477
00:52:41,109 --> 00:52:39,760
love that i love that answer that's

1478
00:52:44,870 --> 00:52:41,119
that's a great

1479
00:52:46,470 --> 00:52:44,880
open-minded answer and uh mark d'antonio

1480
00:52:48,470 --> 00:52:46,480
has actually been involved in something

1481
00:52:50,150 --> 00:52:48,480
we'll bring him on in a little while to

1482
00:52:50,790 --> 00:52:50,160
talk about that but along those lines

1483
00:52:53,430 --> 00:52:50,800
with uh

1484
00:52:54,870 --> 00:52:53,440
you know sophisticated equipment and um

1485
00:52:57,990 --> 00:52:54,880
his partner on that

1486
00:52:59,829 --> 00:52:58,000
is very well funded and but i think it

1487
00:53:01,510 --> 00:52:59,839
you know i mean there are there are

1488
00:53:04,630 --> 00:53:01,520
countries that are taking

1489
00:53:05,430 --> 00:53:04,640
this serious chile for one they they do

1490
00:53:08,710 --> 00:53:05,440
and i know there's

1491
00:53:09,349 --> 00:53:08,720
great telescopes in in in chile um but

1492
00:53:11,510 --> 00:53:09,359
their whole

1493
00:53:12,710 --> 00:53:11,520
entire government is involved even the

1494
00:53:15,829 --> 00:53:12,720
police and

1495
00:53:17,430 --> 00:53:15,839
every you know military everything is in

1496
00:53:19,990 --> 00:53:17,440
looking at it seriously which

1497
00:53:21,670 --> 00:53:20,000
well one reason for governments to be

1498
00:53:22,549 --> 00:53:21,680
concerned about such reports is of

1499
00:53:24,950 --> 00:53:22,559
course um

1500
00:53:27,109 --> 00:53:24,960
national security you might want to know

1501
00:53:29,349 --> 00:53:27,119
if other nations have technologies that

1502
00:53:30,870 --> 00:53:29,359
you're not aware of and they're used for

1503
00:53:33,190 --> 00:53:30,880
espionage

1504
00:53:33,990 --> 00:53:33,200
so that's why governments are interested

1505
00:53:35,829 --> 00:53:34,000
but it's

1506
00:53:37,270 --> 00:53:35,839
a completely different reason than the

1507
00:53:38,790 --> 00:53:37,280
scientific reason of

1508
00:53:40,390 --> 00:53:38,800
trying to find evidence for alien

1509
00:53:43,430 --> 00:53:40,400
civilizations yeah

1510
00:53:44,309 --> 00:53:43,440
yeah that's great um we are going into

1511
00:53:46,230 --> 00:53:44,319
break in just

1512
00:53:48,390 --> 00:53:46,240
just a minute um i did have another

1513
00:53:51,829 --> 00:53:48,400
question for you here before we go in

1514
00:53:55,430 --> 00:53:51,839
and uh karen meech professor meech

1515
00:53:55,990 --> 00:53:55,440
um she she kind of disagrees with you or

1516
00:54:01,829 --> 00:53:56,000
or

1517
00:54:02,470 --> 00:54:01,839
i did see her name come up well i think

1518
00:54:07,270 --> 00:54:02,480
she

1519
00:54:09,589 --> 00:54:07,280
mainstream approach saying that

1520
00:54:11,109 --> 00:54:09,599
extraordinary evidence require

1521
00:54:13,349 --> 00:54:11,119
extraordinary claims require

1522
00:54:16,069 --> 00:54:13,359
extraordinary evidence and

1523
00:54:18,230 --> 00:54:16,079
my answer to that is that extraordinary

1524
00:54:22,710 --> 00:54:18,240
conservatism

1525
00:54:27,109 --> 00:54:24,390
the point is that we should be

1526
00:54:28,950 --> 00:54:27,119
open-minded and when there is anomalies

1527
00:54:30,390 --> 00:54:28,960
we should invest in getting more

1528
00:54:32,870 --> 00:54:30,400
evidence to find out

1529
00:54:34,230 --> 00:54:32,880
what their origin is and the

1530
00:54:37,430 --> 00:54:34,240
alternatives to my

1531
00:54:39,109 --> 00:54:37,440
artificial origin invoke something that

1532
00:54:40,950 --> 00:54:39,119
we have never seen before so

1533
00:54:42,549 --> 00:54:40,960
obviously we will learn something new

1534
00:54:43,349 --> 00:54:42,559
irrespective whether it's a natural

1535
00:54:47,670 --> 00:54:43,359
object

1536
00:54:49,910 --> 00:54:47,680
we will not learn anything new

1537
00:54:51,270 --> 00:54:49,920
is if we believe everyone that says it's

1538
00:54:54,789 --> 00:54:51,280
just rocks it's never

1539
00:54:57,030 --> 00:54:54,799
aliens okay if we adapt that approach

1540
00:54:58,789 --> 00:54:57,040
it's we are we will be very similar to

1541
00:55:00,950 --> 00:54:58,799
those philosophers that refuse to look

1542
00:55:03,190 --> 00:55:00,960
through galileo's telescope

1543
00:55:04,150 --> 00:55:03,200
that's right and and how we stand still

1544
00:55:07,829 --> 00:55:04,160
so many times

1545
00:55:11,030 --> 00:55:07,839
you know uh that that phrase from sagan

1546
00:55:15,430 --> 00:55:11,040
was originated all the way back in 1814

1547
00:55:18,230 --> 00:55:15,440
and then reinvented in 1899

1548
00:55:19,190 --> 00:55:18,240
um as this the weight of evidence for

1549
00:55:20,870 --> 00:55:19,200
extraordinary

1550
00:55:23,109 --> 00:55:20,880
claim must be proportioned to its

1551
00:55:23,829 --> 00:55:23,119
strangeness and that was by theodore

1552
00:55:27,270 --> 00:55:23,839
flourny

1553
00:55:29,510 --> 00:55:27,280
in 1899. so it was carl sagan kind of

1554
00:55:30,950 --> 00:55:29,520
remade that saying but it holds true all

1555
00:55:33,190 --> 00:55:30,960
the way through

1556
00:55:34,309 --> 00:55:33,200
yeah i should also say that you know the

1557
00:55:36,069 --> 00:55:34,319
existence of

1558
00:55:37,510 --> 00:55:36,079
aliens i don't regard it as

1559
00:55:38,870 --> 00:55:37,520
extraordinary because

1560
00:55:40,870 --> 00:55:38,880
we know that we exist we know the

1561
00:55:42,630 --> 00:55:40,880
conditions on earth are reproduced

1562
00:55:44,230 --> 00:55:42,640
in billions of earth sun systems

1563
00:55:45,990 --> 00:55:44,240
throughout the milky way galaxy

1564
00:55:47,430 --> 00:55:46,000
why should we believe that we are unique

1565
00:55:48,230 --> 00:55:47,440
and special you know that would be

1566
00:55:51,270 --> 00:55:48,240
arrogant

1567
00:55:54,150 --> 00:55:51,280
and i think the mainstream conservative

1568
00:55:54,630 --> 00:55:54,160
view that is also a matter of common

1569
00:55:57,430 --> 00:55:54,640
sense

1570
00:55:58,630 --> 00:55:57,440
would be to say that things like us are

1571
00:56:00,309 --> 00:55:58,640
very common

1572
00:56:02,309 --> 00:56:00,319
and we should just search for them that

1573
00:56:04,950 --> 00:56:02,319
should be the the mainstream view

1574
00:56:05,750 --> 00:56:04,960
so i wouldn't call it extraordinary

1575
00:56:12,069 --> 00:56:05,760
right

1576
00:56:13,190 --> 00:56:12,079
and uh we'll be back in about three

1577
00:56:15,430 --> 00:56:13,200
minutes or so

1578
00:56:16,549 --> 00:56:15,440
so everyone hang in there i'm going to

1579
00:56:19,030 --> 00:56:16,559
be right back

1580
00:56:20,150 --> 00:56:19,040
with uh mark d'antonio we're going to

1581
00:56:22,309 --> 00:56:20,160
talk during the break

1582
00:56:23,349 --> 00:56:22,319
and bring our guests back in right after

1583
00:56:35,190 --> 00:56:23,359
the three-minute

1584
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:39,190
hello mark

1585
00:56:44,710 --> 00:56:41,190
there you go on mu i know it means

1586
00:56:47,430 --> 00:56:44,720
exactly but you know what i never know

1587
00:56:48,150 --> 00:56:47,440
well all right i can always mute you if

1588
00:56:50,470 --> 00:56:48,160
i want to

1589
00:56:52,230 --> 00:56:50,480
this is good i mean i i rephrase some of

1590
00:56:53,829 --> 00:56:52,240
my questions because he answered some

1591
00:56:56,870 --> 00:56:53,839
and i wanted to uh

1592
00:56:57,990 --> 00:56:56,880
you know i think that he and i meet in a

1593
00:57:00,950 --> 00:56:58,000
lot of ways

1594
00:57:03,109 --> 00:57:00,960
on this i'm really really uh excited to

1595
00:57:06,549 --> 00:57:03,119
uh hear what he had to say

1596
00:57:08,950 --> 00:57:06,559
oh good good um he did a

1597
00:57:10,150 --> 00:57:08,960
he and i did an abc special with the abc

1598
00:57:13,430 --> 00:57:10,160
affiliate in boston

1599
00:57:13,829 --> 00:57:13,440
okay it was chronicle and we didn't meet

1600
00:57:16,630 --> 00:57:13,839
on

1601
00:57:17,190 --> 00:57:16,640
that shoot but he did his from where he

1602
00:57:19,750 --> 00:57:17,200
was

1603
00:57:20,950 --> 00:57:19,760
and doug and i did ours from doug's

1604
00:57:24,150 --> 00:57:20,960
studio

1605
00:57:27,349 --> 00:57:24,160
and we talked about the prospects of

1606
00:57:30,470 --> 00:57:27,359
alien life being here um

1607
00:57:32,150 --> 00:57:30,480
and i think it's important to maybe we

1608
00:57:34,630 --> 00:57:32,160
can talk about this too

1609
00:57:35,910 --> 00:57:34,640
bring up the fact that i think that if

1610
00:57:37,190 --> 00:57:35,920
they're here they're not going to be

1611
00:57:38,950 --> 00:57:37,200
hiding on the moon they're not going to

1612
00:57:39,589 --> 00:57:38,960
be watching us from some lagrange point

1613
00:57:40,710 --> 00:57:39,599
somewhere

1614
00:57:42,710 --> 00:57:40,720
i think they're going to be in our

1615
00:57:43,990 --> 00:57:42,720
oceans you know they're going to be deep

1616
00:57:46,470 --> 00:57:44,000
in the oceans because they can because

1617
00:57:48,549 --> 00:57:46,480
we're not there they go where we are not

1618
00:57:50,069 --> 00:57:48,559
basically kind of a thing if they're

1619
00:57:51,670 --> 00:57:50,079
here i mean

1620
00:57:53,430 --> 00:57:51,680
and you can't just say something with

1621
00:57:55,430 --> 00:57:53,440
absolute like that like like oh they're

1622
00:57:58,470 --> 00:57:55,440
here no we don't know that you know

1623
00:58:00,549 --> 00:57:58,480
they may be here there's a possibility

1624
00:58:02,309 --> 00:58:00,559
and as he said mainstream science can't

1625
00:58:04,230 --> 00:58:02,319
deny the possibilities

1626
00:58:05,910 --> 00:58:04,240
and main street science mainstream

1627
00:58:08,549 --> 00:58:05,920
science shouldn't

1628
00:58:09,670 --> 00:58:08,559
close their minds because as he said you

1629
00:58:12,950 --> 00:58:09,680
know extraordinary

1630
00:58:14,470 --> 00:58:12,960
you know proof uh might be required but

1631
00:58:17,190 --> 00:58:14,480
you can't exhibit extraordinary

1632
00:58:19,510 --> 00:58:17,200
ignorance by ignoring other things

1633
00:58:21,109 --> 00:58:19,520
yeah and that's very true and that's how

1634
00:58:23,270 --> 00:58:21,119
i live my life that's how i do things

1635
00:58:25,990 --> 00:58:23,280
that's why i'm open-minded

1636
00:58:27,190 --> 00:58:26,000
well yeah what you said about the ocean

1637
00:58:30,390 --> 00:58:27,200
think about

1638
00:58:33,109 --> 00:58:30,400
how much of the ocean covers this earth

1639
00:58:34,710 --> 00:58:33,119
you know and and we we know less about

1640
00:58:36,150 --> 00:58:34,720
the ocean floor than we do about the

1641
00:58:37,430 --> 00:58:36,160
surface of the moon you know from what

1642
00:58:38,950 --> 00:58:37,440
i've heard i don't know

1643
00:58:40,950 --> 00:58:38,960
you go into google earth and you think

1644
00:58:42,630 --> 00:58:40,960
wow look you see the whole ocean floor

1645
00:58:44,230 --> 00:58:42,640
mapped out with that bathymetry you see

1646
00:58:44,870 --> 00:58:44,240
all the ups and downs all the levels

1647
00:58:46,309 --> 00:58:44,880
changes all

1648
00:58:48,470 --> 00:58:46,319
you see all that but you know what you

1649
00:58:49,030 --> 00:58:48,480
don't see you don't see a snapshot of

1650
00:58:51,510 --> 00:58:49,040
what it is

1651
00:58:53,349 --> 00:58:51,520
right this second you see the bathymetry

1652
00:58:53,910 --> 00:58:53,359
of where that toad sled went over the

1653
00:58:56,309 --> 00:58:53,920
bottom

1654
00:58:57,270 --> 00:58:56,319
to show you that ocean floor at that

1655
00:59:00,390 --> 00:58:57,280
time when they did it

1656
00:59:01,670 --> 00:59:00,400
seven years ago say you know it didn't

1657
00:59:04,710 --> 00:59:01,680
happen all at once it took

1658
00:59:06,630 --> 00:59:04,720
years to map the ocean floor like that

1659
00:59:08,789 --> 00:59:06,640
so when they did that you know that's

1660
00:59:10,870 --> 00:59:08,799
just a snapshot

1661
00:59:11,910 --> 00:59:10,880
and you can be sure that certain areas

1662
00:59:15,270 --> 00:59:11,920
look very different

1663
00:59:16,789 --> 00:59:15,280
now than they did then and even within

1664
00:59:18,390 --> 00:59:16,799
the range of all that data

1665
00:59:20,309 --> 00:59:18,400
certain parts of the ocean floor are

1666
00:59:24,230 --> 00:59:20,319
going to look very different

1667
00:59:28,230 --> 00:59:24,240
from the ocean floor now you know

1668
00:59:30,870 --> 00:59:28,240
so it's a constant change so we kind of

1669
00:59:32,710 --> 00:59:30,880
we have to be careful not to accept

1670
00:59:34,630 --> 00:59:32,720
everything we see as

1671
00:59:35,829 --> 00:59:34,640
this is absolute truth right now because

1672
00:59:37,349 --> 00:59:35,839
it's not

1673
00:59:42,950 --> 00:59:37,359
all right gentlemen we are coming back

1674
00:59:49,430 --> 00:59:46,950
in three two one go

1675
00:59:50,789 --> 00:59:49,440
all right welcome back uh just brought

1676
00:59:54,069 --> 00:59:50,799
in mark d'antonio

1677
00:59:57,510 --> 00:59:54,079
and bringing back on our guest avi loeb

1678
00:59:59,910 --> 00:59:57,520
we're all three here together and uh so

1679
01:00:00,870 --> 00:59:59,920
mark um you you just mentioned during

1680
01:00:03,190 --> 01:00:00,880
the break that you were

1681
01:00:04,789 --> 01:00:03,200
in the same location on a shoot at the

1682
01:00:07,910 --> 01:00:04,799
same time as avi was

1683
01:00:10,069 --> 01:00:07,920
yeah sorry yeah you remember the i don't

1684
01:00:13,430 --> 01:00:10,079
know if you remember this aubry we did a

1685
01:00:16,390 --> 01:00:13,440
abc affiliate show chronicle oh yeah

1686
01:00:16,789 --> 01:00:16,400
yeah you did your part we did our part

1687
01:00:18,789 --> 01:00:16,799
okay

1688
01:00:19,910 --> 01:00:18,799
we are in western massachusetts and you

1689
01:00:22,470 --> 01:00:19,920
were in in

1690
01:00:23,510 --> 01:00:22,480
over in harvard which i thought was

1691
01:00:25,750 --> 01:00:23,520
pretty funny

1692
01:00:26,549 --> 01:00:25,760
um it's very close and i remember that

1693
01:00:29,349 --> 01:00:26,559
show yeah

1694
01:00:30,549 --> 01:00:29,359
yeah and it was a very good shoot and um

1695
01:00:31,349 --> 01:00:30,559
you know one of the things i thought

1696
01:00:35,109 --> 01:00:31,359
about

1697
01:00:38,870 --> 01:00:35,119
and congratulations on the book

1698
01:00:39,589 --> 01:00:38,880
excellent okay um i think more of it is

1699
01:00:43,109 --> 01:00:39,599
needed

1700
01:00:46,069 --> 01:00:43,119
you know frankly and uh and

1701
01:00:48,470 --> 01:00:46,079
what happens is when we uh when we look

1702
01:00:51,589 --> 01:00:48,480
in there our vast oceans right

1703
01:00:53,589 --> 01:00:51,599
my feeling is that if and i say if

1704
01:00:55,270 --> 01:00:53,599
okay because i'm a science guy you say

1705
01:00:57,190 --> 01:00:55,280
if right you don't say definitely you

1706
01:01:00,150 --> 01:00:57,200
can't use authority we know that

1707
01:01:00,870 --> 01:01:00,160
you know but the thing is if they're

1708
01:01:03,910 --> 01:01:00,880
here

1709
01:01:05,109 --> 01:01:03,920
all right well then i have a feeling

1710
01:01:07,109 --> 01:01:05,119
that they're observing not

1711
01:01:09,109 --> 01:01:07,119
from the moon not from some lagrange

1712
01:01:11,109 --> 01:01:09,119
point with a cloaked spacecraft

1713
01:01:12,789 --> 01:01:11,119
not via the soho you know and looking at

1714
01:01:15,990 --> 01:01:12,799
all those cosmic ray

1715
01:01:18,150 --> 01:01:16,000
flashes on those photos okay but perhaps

1716
01:01:19,750 --> 01:01:18,160
from within our own oceans where we are

1717
01:01:22,230 --> 01:01:19,760
not they go where we're not

1718
01:01:23,030 --> 01:01:22,240
if they're here right i mean is that

1719
01:01:25,670 --> 01:01:23,040
does that seem

1720
01:01:26,870 --> 01:01:25,680
like a logical approach i think we

1721
01:01:28,630 --> 01:01:26,880
should contemplate

1722
01:01:30,069 --> 01:01:28,640
all possibilities this is one of them

1723
01:01:32,710 --> 01:01:30,079
definitely worth what

1724
01:01:33,589 --> 01:01:32,720
the question is can we um do experiments

1725
01:01:37,349 --> 01:01:33,599
that will

1726
01:01:38,549 --> 01:01:37,359
let us know about them yes we can

1727
01:01:39,829 --> 01:01:38,559
and that's something that we've been

1728
01:01:40,630 --> 01:01:39,839
working on actually we've been working

1729
01:01:43,430 --> 01:01:40,640
on the

1730
01:01:43,829 --> 01:01:43,440
very type of technology to allow us to

1731
01:01:47,190 --> 01:01:43,839
look

1732
01:01:49,670 --> 01:01:47,200
not up but down in the ocean

1733
01:01:51,190 --> 01:01:49,680
using technology to see what might be

1734
01:01:53,270 --> 01:01:51,200
under the water

1735
01:01:55,190 --> 01:01:53,280
and maybe some hot spots that people say

1736
01:01:56,549 --> 01:01:55,200
oh we see all these famous these funny

1737
01:01:58,549 --> 01:01:56,559
lights coming out of the ocean over here

1738
01:02:00,710 --> 01:01:58,559
well let's deploy something

1739
01:02:02,470 --> 01:02:00,720
you know i came up with a system that we

1740
01:02:04,789 --> 01:02:02,480
haven't built it yet but it's actually

1741
01:02:07,190 --> 01:02:04,799
uh it sits in the tide it sits in the in

1742
01:02:08,390 --> 01:02:07,200
the waves and it uses the wave action to

1743
01:02:09,910 --> 01:02:08,400
charge its batteries

1744
01:02:11,510 --> 01:02:09,920
you know it's a it's one of these little

1745
01:02:13,270 --> 01:02:11,520
dipping things that actually

1746
01:02:14,549 --> 01:02:13,280
starts to do the cell recharge as it

1747
01:02:17,430 --> 01:02:14,559
dips it's a

1748
01:02:19,430 --> 01:02:17,440
not an uncommon thought and so but it

1749
01:02:20,950 --> 01:02:19,440
would look down with instrumentation

1750
01:02:23,029 --> 01:02:20,960
uh with instruments that can actually

1751
01:02:25,109 --> 01:02:23,039
penetrate through the water obviously

1752
01:02:26,309 --> 01:02:25,119
you know we know sonar can do it we

1753
01:02:29,190 --> 01:02:26,319
certainly yeah

1754
01:02:29,910 --> 01:02:29,200
there's certain light we can't use by

1755
01:02:31,829 --> 01:02:29,920
the way uh

1756
01:02:33,190 --> 01:02:31,839
i mean whatever you find would be

1757
01:02:35,190 --> 01:02:33,200
interesting

1758
01:02:36,230 --> 01:02:35,200
irrespective you know because you will

1759
01:02:40,309 --> 01:02:36,240
do the first

1760
01:02:41,750 --> 01:02:40,319
observations of such yeah that's right

1761
01:02:43,510 --> 01:02:41,760
yeah margaret you would tell them what

1762
01:02:46,710 --> 01:02:43,520
you and doug uh

1763
01:02:50,230 --> 01:02:46,720
were putting together yeah well

1764
01:02:52,069 --> 01:02:50,240
for ufo technology observation

1765
01:02:54,230 --> 01:02:52,079
right you know and one of the things

1766
01:02:55,270 --> 01:02:54,240
that i feel is very important is trying

1767
01:02:58,549 --> 01:02:55,280
to

1768
01:03:00,630 --> 01:02:58,559
they're here

1769
01:03:02,710 --> 01:03:00,640
let's get the answer let's figure this

1770
01:03:04,470 --> 01:03:02,720
out there should be a way right

1771
01:03:06,230 --> 01:03:04,480
you're looking at you're saying it's a

1772
01:03:06,870 --> 01:03:06,240
pancake shaped object this might be a

1773
01:03:09,430 --> 01:03:06,880
very very

1774
01:03:11,349 --> 01:03:09,440
thin light sail technology which by the

1775
01:03:12,630 --> 01:03:11,359
way douglas trumbull is a big fan of

1776
01:03:16,470 --> 01:03:12,640
just so you know

1777
01:03:18,150 --> 01:03:16,480
okay and this light cell technology

1778
01:03:20,309 --> 01:03:18,160
is something that you've identified as a

1779
01:03:23,430 --> 01:03:20,319
very strong possibility

1780
01:03:25,349 --> 01:03:23,440
but here on earth how can how can

1781
01:03:27,029 --> 01:03:25,359
everyone participate in finding such

1782
01:03:28,870 --> 01:03:27,039
things well the way they can

1783
01:03:31,109 --> 01:03:28,880
is if we can make these what we call

1784
01:03:32,950 --> 01:03:31,119
platters of instrumentation that are

1785
01:03:35,750 --> 01:03:32,960
always looking up and observing the sky

1786
01:03:37,190 --> 01:03:35,760
but not with just regular cameras they

1787
01:03:38,950 --> 01:03:37,200
have to look in the wavelengths that our

1788
01:03:41,029 --> 01:03:38,960
eyes don't use obviously

1789
01:03:42,549 --> 01:03:41,039
you know they have to look at other

1790
01:03:45,349 --> 01:03:42,559
energies that are being

1791
01:03:47,829 --> 01:03:45,359
uh you know given off by potential

1792
01:03:49,430 --> 01:03:47,839
interlopers into our space or whatever

1793
01:03:51,190 --> 01:03:49,440
and you know you you quickly start

1794
01:03:53,109 --> 01:03:51,200
sounding like some kind of a ufo now

1795
01:03:56,069 --> 01:03:53,119
when you start talking about this stuff

1796
01:03:57,349 --> 01:03:56,079
but it's just science trying to find out

1797
01:03:59,670 --> 01:03:57,359
what other

1798
01:04:00,710 --> 01:03:59,680
things are in play in our atmosphere so

1799
01:04:03,510 --> 01:04:00,720
did you did you

1800
01:04:05,109 --> 01:04:03,520
deploy instruments of that type not yet

1801
01:04:07,430 --> 01:04:05,119
actually there was a prototype that was

1802
01:04:10,470 --> 01:04:07,440
made yes and but there was only one

1803
01:04:12,390 --> 01:04:10,480
okay and we actually cannibalized that

1804
01:04:14,630 --> 01:04:12,400
and we're making our others our other

1805
01:04:16,309 --> 01:04:14,640
platters that's exactly the approach

1806
01:04:18,710 --> 01:04:16,319
that i'm advocating for and i

1807
01:04:19,829 --> 01:04:18,720
i wrote about it in scientific american

1808
01:04:21,829 --> 01:04:19,839
basically making it

1809
01:04:24,150 --> 01:04:21,839
a part of science and trying to figure

1810
01:04:26,230 --> 01:04:24,160
out you know try to collect the data and

1811
01:04:28,390 --> 01:04:26,240
see what we get

1812
01:04:30,710 --> 01:04:28,400
and i think it's a much much healthier

1813
01:04:33,829 --> 01:04:30,720
approach than relying on all documents

1814
01:04:37,109 --> 01:04:33,839
because we can design the experiment to

1815
01:04:37,750 --> 01:04:37,119
to be optimized for this purpose yeah i

1816
01:04:38,950 --> 01:04:37,760
agree that

1817
01:04:40,870 --> 01:04:38,960
and you know the other thing too that

1818
01:04:44,789 --> 01:04:40,880
i've thought of and said many times is

1819
01:04:48,150 --> 01:04:44,799
and and you probably will agree is that

1820
01:04:51,190 --> 01:04:48,160
um and you actually do agree i know um

1821
01:04:54,630 --> 01:04:51,200
i don't really care about historical

1822
01:04:56,069 --> 01:04:54,640
ufo cases okay as you said and he points

1823
01:04:59,029 --> 01:04:56,079
out very eloquently

1824
01:04:59,670 --> 01:04:59,039
it was taken with old instrumentation

1825
01:05:03,270 --> 01:04:59,680
that

1826
01:05:05,589 --> 01:05:03,280
we would

1827
01:05:06,789 --> 01:05:05,599
put it under and therefore it's not

1828
01:05:10,150 --> 01:05:06,799
going to be valid to me

1829
01:05:11,829 --> 01:05:10,160
i only focus on now in the future right

1830
01:05:13,430 --> 01:05:11,839
because now in the future we have the

1831
01:05:15,829 --> 01:05:13,440
best technology to

1832
01:05:17,190 --> 01:05:15,839
to use to look at that's exactly you're

1833
01:05:21,990 --> 01:05:17,200
saying exactly what i said

1834
01:05:23,750 --> 01:05:22,000
yeah excellent yeah

1835
01:05:25,109 --> 01:05:23,760
yeah mark you're gonna have to turn your

1836
01:05:26,230 --> 01:05:25,119
your headset down a little bit more

1837
01:05:27,510 --> 01:05:26,240
again

1838
01:05:30,150 --> 01:05:27,520
unfortunately it's feeding back a little

1839
01:05:30,950 --> 01:05:30,160
bit okay i sent you a message but you

1840
01:05:34,549 --> 01:05:30,960
didn't see it

1841
01:05:37,510 --> 01:05:34,559
i did yeah yeah um

1842
01:05:38,309 --> 01:05:37,520
maybe like this that should be better

1843
01:05:41,910 --> 01:05:38,319
okay

1844
01:05:43,029 --> 01:05:41,920
yeah um so mark uh what is a really good

1845
01:05:45,510 --> 01:05:43,039
question to ask

1846
01:05:46,309 --> 01:05:45,520
avi now that you have this opportunity

1847
01:05:47,430 --> 01:05:46,319
uh you know i

1848
01:05:49,270 --> 01:05:47,440
it's something i've actually wanted to

1849
01:05:50,549 --> 01:05:49,280
ask you i actually want to ask you this

1850
01:05:51,910 --> 01:05:50,559
when we were doing the shoot and i was

1851
01:05:53,190 --> 01:05:51,920
hoping that we were going to be in each

1852
01:05:54,230 --> 01:05:53,200
other's presence so i could talk to you

1853
01:05:56,230 --> 01:05:54,240
about this stuff

1854
01:05:57,990 --> 01:05:56,240
go ahead but no they didn't do it that

1855
01:06:00,470 --> 01:05:58,000
the way it worked out

1856
01:06:01,990 --> 01:06:00,480
i was really interested in the fact that

1857
01:06:03,829 --> 01:06:02,000
omumua shows us this

1858
01:06:06,069 --> 01:06:03,839
this dichotomy of two different

1859
01:06:08,069 --> 01:06:06,079
potential objects

1860
01:06:09,349 --> 01:06:08,079
on one hand it looks like it's a comet

1861
01:06:10,789 --> 01:06:09,359
on the other hand it appears like it's

1862
01:06:12,950 --> 01:06:10,799
an asteroid

1863
01:06:14,230 --> 01:06:12,960
how does how do people of science

1864
01:06:16,390 --> 01:06:14,240
actually sit there

1865
01:06:18,630 --> 01:06:16,400
look at this thing and say well it's

1866
01:06:20,230 --> 01:06:18,640
just a strange asteroid

1867
01:06:22,789 --> 01:06:20,240
i don't understand that that's a very

1868
01:06:24,549 --> 01:06:22,799
good question because it did exhibit all

1869
01:06:27,510 --> 01:06:24,559
these anomalies and people just

1870
01:06:27,990 --> 01:06:27,520
i think people just want to dismiss that

1871
01:06:30,470 --> 01:06:28,000
it's

1872
01:06:31,190 --> 01:06:30,480
strange and and they just say that and

1873
01:06:33,589 --> 01:06:31,200
and ignore

1874
01:06:35,589 --> 01:06:33,599
the facts and unfortunately that's an

1875
01:06:37,430 --> 01:06:35,599
acceptable behavior these days

1876
01:06:39,109 --> 01:06:37,440
even though you know very often it's

1877
01:06:41,430 --> 01:06:39,119
argued against politicians that

1878
01:06:42,710 --> 01:06:41,440
politicians that are ignoring evidence

1879
01:06:45,670 --> 01:06:42,720
ignoring facts that

1880
01:06:47,109 --> 01:06:45,680
you know how dare they do that but if if

1881
01:06:50,230 --> 01:06:47,119
scientists can do it

1882
01:06:51,910 --> 01:06:50,240
what why would we hold our politicians

1883
01:06:53,750 --> 01:06:51,920
to a higher standard you know

1884
01:06:55,029 --> 01:06:53,760
and but i should say it's not all

1885
01:06:57,589 --> 01:06:55,039
scientists um

1886
01:06:58,549 --> 01:06:57,599
those that take seriously the anomalies

1887
01:07:00,789 --> 01:06:58,559
and the facts that

1888
01:07:02,630 --> 01:07:00,799
trying to explain them uh and of course

1889
01:07:03,589 --> 01:07:02,640
there are some like that and they came

1890
01:07:05,430 --> 01:07:03,599
up with

1891
01:07:07,190 --> 01:07:05,440
uh all these scenarios that i mentioned

1892
01:07:08,789 --> 01:07:07,200
that involve

1893
01:07:10,230 --> 01:07:08,799
something that we've never seen before

1894
01:07:12,950 --> 01:07:10,240
so that i

1895
01:07:13,990 --> 01:07:12,960
actually regard with respect and you

1896
01:07:15,670 --> 01:07:14,000
know it's just like

1897
01:07:17,190 --> 01:07:15,680
the scientific process where you put all

1898
01:07:18,470 --> 01:07:17,200
possibilities on the table and you

1899
01:07:20,789 --> 01:07:18,480
collect more evidence

1900
01:07:22,470 --> 01:07:20,799
and that's completely legitimate but you

1901
01:07:24,630 --> 01:07:22,480
know there are people

1902
01:07:26,069 --> 01:07:24,640
that didn't write even a single paper

1903
01:07:29,109 --> 01:07:26,079
over the past decade

1904
01:07:31,510 --> 01:07:29,119
that would criticize my paper

1905
01:07:32,710 --> 01:07:31,520
uh without a good reason just because

1906
01:07:35,990 --> 01:07:32,720
they don't like the

1907
01:07:39,270 --> 01:07:36,000
this notion you know and um

1908
01:07:41,829 --> 01:07:39,280
it's um unfortunate the an unfortunate

1909
01:07:43,109 --> 01:07:41,839
symptom of social media these days that

1910
01:07:45,109 --> 01:07:43,119
you know there is a lot of

1911
01:07:46,309 --> 01:07:45,119
group thing and the people encourage

1912
01:07:47,910 --> 01:07:46,319
each other by

1913
01:07:49,670 --> 01:07:47,920
making false statements that are not

1914
01:07:51,349 --> 01:07:49,680
attending to the facts

1915
01:07:52,789 --> 01:07:51,359
i i don't disagree with that at all i

1916
01:07:55,750 --> 01:07:52,799
think that's that's a

1917
01:07:56,950 --> 01:07:55,760
marvelous problem yeah you know i i look

1918
01:07:58,870 --> 01:07:56,960
at life on earth

1919
01:08:01,589 --> 01:07:58,880
uh we're bipedal we have our binocular

1920
01:08:03,430 --> 01:08:01,599
vision where every life form has dna

1921
01:08:05,190 --> 01:08:03,440
okay to me that's a template that the

1922
01:08:06,870 --> 01:08:05,200
universe provides

1923
01:08:08,630 --> 01:08:06,880
because there's so many variations of

1924
01:08:10,549 --> 01:08:08,640
life on the planet that

1925
01:08:13,109 --> 01:08:10,559
they had a chance to have developed you

1926
01:08:15,190 --> 01:08:13,119
know other types of life here

1927
01:08:17,349 --> 01:08:15,200
maybe we can find other types of life

1928
01:08:19,269 --> 01:08:17,359
that are very hardy microbes on mars

1929
01:08:20,470 --> 01:08:19,279
i'm looking forward to that actually you

1930
01:08:21,669 --> 01:08:20,480
know under the south pole of mars

1931
01:08:22,309 --> 01:08:21,679
there's a reservoir maybe we'll find

1932
01:08:24,550 --> 01:08:22,319
life there

1933
01:08:25,669 --> 01:08:24,560
that will be very interesting and on

1934
01:08:27,990 --> 01:08:25,679
mars of course the

1935
01:08:29,910 --> 01:08:28,000
fundamental question if we find life is

1936
01:08:30,550 --> 01:08:29,920
it similar to life on earth or not

1937
01:08:34,070 --> 01:08:30,560
because

1938
01:08:36,229 --> 01:08:34,080
if it resembles the dna we have on earth

1939
01:08:37,349 --> 01:08:36,239
then it may mean that life was

1940
01:08:38,709 --> 01:08:37,359
transported

1941
01:08:40,470 --> 01:08:38,719
with rock you know we know that there

1942
01:08:41,910 --> 01:08:40,480
are martian rocks that arrive to earth

1943
01:08:44,309 --> 01:08:41,920
and vice versa and

1944
01:08:45,990 --> 01:08:44,319
it's quite possible that life was

1945
01:08:48,149 --> 01:08:46,000
exchanged between the planets we might

1946
01:08:50,070 --> 01:08:48,159
be all martians for example

1947
01:08:51,590 --> 01:08:50,080
exactly but there is the second

1948
01:08:52,630 --> 01:08:51,600
possibility that it's it will be

1949
01:08:54,870 --> 01:08:52,640
completely different

1950
01:08:56,789 --> 01:08:54,880
and that would illustrate that not only

1951
01:08:58,789 --> 01:08:56,799
there was no exchange of life but also

1952
01:09:00,630 --> 01:08:58,799
that there are multiple paths for having

1953
01:09:02,630 --> 01:09:00,640
life and

1954
01:09:03,910 --> 01:09:02,640
either way it would be very exciting to

1955
01:09:05,749 --> 01:09:03,920
see evidence

1956
01:09:07,189 --> 01:09:05,759
because it would be a second data point

1957
01:09:08,789 --> 01:09:07,199
even though this is the nearest

1958
01:09:10,470 --> 01:09:08,799
one of you know the second nearest

1959
01:09:13,510 --> 01:09:10,480
planet to us uh

1960
01:09:15,990 --> 01:09:13,520
after venus um uh that

1961
01:09:17,510 --> 01:09:16,000
nevertheless it's the second place where

1962
01:09:19,749 --> 01:09:17,520
we might find life

1963
01:09:21,829 --> 01:09:19,759
yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna ask kind of a

1964
01:09:26,149 --> 01:09:21,839
philosophical question

1965
01:09:28,070 --> 01:09:26,159
the first spark of life um

1966
01:09:30,950 --> 01:09:28,080
you think it'll could ever be created in

1967
01:09:33,590 --> 01:09:30,960
a lab oh yeah i mean

1968
01:09:34,390 --> 01:09:33,600
at harvard the one of my colleagues jack

1969
01:09:36,470 --> 01:09:34,400
shostak

1970
01:09:38,470 --> 01:09:36,480
who is a nobel laureate is working on

1971
01:09:42,309 --> 01:09:38,480
making synthetic life

1972
01:09:44,870 --> 01:09:42,319
uh basically a living cell out of

1973
01:09:45,829 --> 01:09:44,880
scratch you know and wow he's getting

1974
01:09:48,149 --> 01:09:45,839
close to that

1975
01:09:50,229 --> 01:09:48,159
uh he said that when he started to work

1976
01:09:52,950 --> 01:09:50,239
on it about a decade ago

1977
01:09:53,669 --> 01:09:52,960
he was quite pessimistic and said that

1978
01:09:56,630 --> 01:09:53,679
he

1979
01:09:57,430 --> 01:09:56,640
cannot see how life formed spontaneously

1980
01:09:59,350 --> 01:09:57,440
on earth

1981
01:10:00,950 --> 01:09:59,360
but now he changed his view he thinks

1982
01:10:02,870 --> 01:10:00,960
that it's uh

1983
01:10:04,390 --> 01:10:02,880
you know once once he started

1984
01:10:07,270 --> 01:10:04,400
experimenting that

1985
01:10:08,630 --> 01:10:07,280
it is reasonable to expect to have

1986
01:10:10,390 --> 01:10:08,640
expected the earth

1987
01:10:11,669 --> 01:10:10,400
to produce the conditions that lead to

1988
01:10:14,630 --> 01:10:11,679
life and uh

1989
01:10:15,110 --> 01:10:14,640
he's almost there i mean he's getting

1990
01:10:18,870 --> 01:10:15,120
there

1991
01:10:21,990 --> 01:10:18,880
uh and he doesn't see any uh

1992
01:10:23,430 --> 01:10:22,000
major roadblocks so he's getting close

1993
01:10:24,229 --> 01:10:23,440
to making synthetic life in the

1994
01:10:26,790 --> 01:10:24,239
laboratory

1995
01:10:27,669 --> 01:10:26,800
it's not that it's not the same as the

1996
01:10:29,750 --> 01:10:27,679
life that

1997
01:10:31,590 --> 01:10:29,760
you know that form naturally but but

1998
01:10:33,590 --> 01:10:31,600
it's the first step you know if if we

1999
01:10:34,709 --> 01:10:33,600
are able to create a living organism in

2000
01:10:37,430 --> 01:10:34,719
the lab

2001
01:10:38,390 --> 01:10:37,440
then after that we might design

2002
01:10:40,310 --> 01:10:38,400
organisms that

2003
01:10:42,870 --> 01:10:40,320
are not very different from what we

2004
01:10:45,189 --> 01:10:42,880
found in early earth

2005
01:10:46,229 --> 01:10:45,199
wow what kind of award would someone get

2006
01:10:49,110 --> 01:10:46,239
for that

2007
01:10:49,830 --> 01:10:49,120
and nobody yes i would think so he's

2008
01:10:51,750 --> 01:10:49,840
second

2009
01:10:53,669 --> 01:10:51,760
if he's successful yeah yeah yeah it

2010
01:10:54,550 --> 01:10:53,679
would be such an amazing development

2011
01:10:56,550 --> 01:10:54,560
really

2012
01:10:58,550 --> 01:10:56,560
i mean that question to ask if i could

2013
01:11:00,630 --> 01:10:58,560
martin oh yeah yeah yeah my picture is

2014
01:11:01,990 --> 01:11:00,640
here i feel i i have a little

2015
01:11:04,229 --> 01:11:02,000
you know a little bit of time to ask him

2016
01:11:07,110 --> 01:11:04,239
a question or so oh yeah yeah yeah

2017
01:11:09,510 --> 01:11:07,120
um i mean i wanted to ask you you know

2018
01:11:12,229 --> 01:11:09,520
um had a really strange

2019
01:11:13,590 --> 01:11:12,239
uh change in its albedo as it was moving

2020
01:11:15,350 --> 01:11:13,600
through and so the question i had

2021
01:11:17,910 --> 01:11:15,360
regarded that to that brightness change

2022
01:11:22,470 --> 01:11:20,950
does that spin rate that it had say

2023
01:11:24,470 --> 01:11:22,480
anything about its composition

2024
01:11:26,630 --> 01:11:24,480
in terms of flying apart or being held

2025
01:11:27,270 --> 01:11:26,640
together whether it was metallic or not

2026
01:11:29,270 --> 01:11:27,280
i mean

2027
01:11:30,630 --> 01:11:29,280
i i don't have good enough information

2028
01:11:31,430 --> 01:11:30,640
about that well regarding the

2029
01:11:33,430 --> 01:11:31,440
composition

2030
01:11:35,510 --> 01:11:33,440
there are two ways you can go at it one

2031
01:11:38,149 --> 01:11:35,520
is if you have a good spectrum of

2032
01:11:38,950 --> 01:11:38,159
the reflected light from from the object

2033
01:11:40,950 --> 01:11:38,960
then

2034
01:11:41,990 --> 01:11:40,960
you might be able to infer what it's

2035
01:11:44,950 --> 01:11:42,000
made of but

2036
01:11:46,550 --> 01:11:44,960
unfortunately the spectrum was not high

2037
01:11:50,149 --> 01:11:46,560
enough quality and

2038
01:11:53,510 --> 01:11:50,159
it just looked red kind of reddish um

2039
01:11:55,110 --> 01:11:53,520
and then you couldn't tell whether there

2040
01:11:58,149 --> 01:11:55,120
are specific elements

2041
01:11:58,630 --> 01:11:58,159
on on the surface of this object uh and

2042
01:12:00,870 --> 01:11:58,640
then

2043
01:12:02,390 --> 01:12:00,880
with respect to material strength that

2044
01:12:04,950 --> 01:12:02,400
really depends on

2045
01:12:07,110 --> 01:12:04,960
uh its shape which i mean we don't have

2046
01:12:09,270 --> 01:12:07,120
an image of it we just have

2047
01:12:11,350 --> 01:12:09,280
it just appeared as a point of light and

2048
01:12:14,310 --> 01:12:11,360
we know that it was stumbling

2049
01:12:15,430 --> 01:12:14,320
uh over eight hours and you know any

2050
01:12:18,550 --> 01:12:15,440
solid

2051
01:12:19,350 --> 01:12:18,560
could potentially do that that is not a

2052
01:12:21,110 --> 01:12:19,360
challenge

2053
01:12:22,950 --> 01:12:21,120
for an object the size of a football

2054
01:12:27,350 --> 01:12:22,960
field to spin around

2055
01:12:31,189 --> 01:12:27,360
uh every eight hours so you can't i mean

2056
01:12:32,790 --> 01:12:31,199
even for a cloud of dust it's possible i

2057
01:12:34,229 --> 01:12:32,800
checked the numbers so

2058
01:12:36,950 --> 01:12:34,239
so that doesn't say much about the

2059
01:12:38,709 --> 01:12:36,960
material composition so obviously we

2060
01:12:41,189 --> 01:12:38,719
the next time around when we find

2061
01:12:44,229 --> 01:12:41,199
another strange object of this type

2062
01:12:44,709 --> 01:12:44,239
we want to get much more data on it yeah

2063
01:12:47,910 --> 01:12:44,719
and that's

2064
01:12:50,310 --> 01:12:47,920
early detection exactly and the

2065
01:12:51,830 --> 01:12:50,320
lsst on the vera rubin observatory this

2066
01:12:53,990 --> 01:12:51,840
survey of the sky

2067
01:12:55,669 --> 01:12:54,000
uh would be much more sensitive than pan

2068
01:12:56,790 --> 01:12:55,679
stars and could find objects much

2069
01:12:59,110 --> 01:12:56,800
farther away

2070
01:13:00,229 --> 01:12:59,120
so it could give us an advanced warning

2071
01:13:03,430 --> 01:13:00,239
of a year

2072
01:13:05,270 --> 01:13:03,440
or more of objects like

2073
01:13:07,189 --> 01:13:05,280
then we can plan a mission that would

2074
01:13:08,709 --> 01:13:07,199
intercept their trajectory so that we

2075
01:13:09,990 --> 01:13:08,719
can get a photograph i think that would

2076
01:13:12,310 --> 01:13:10,000
be fantastic

2077
01:13:15,510 --> 01:13:12,320
yeah yeah i i think that's wonderful

2078
01:13:18,870 --> 01:13:17,110
i know the answer you see that's the

2079
01:13:22,870 --> 01:13:18,880
thing that it's not the

2080
01:13:26,070 --> 01:13:24,709
a question that came in and mark you're

2081
01:13:26,550 --> 01:13:26,080
you're welcome to ask him right after

2082
01:13:28,630 --> 01:13:26,560
this

2083
01:13:30,630 --> 01:13:28,640
but a question that came into chat was

2084
01:13:32,709 --> 01:13:30,640
is it possible the surface of whatever

2085
01:13:36,229 --> 01:13:32,719
it was could have been it like

2086
01:13:38,229 --> 01:13:36,239
a painted surface so to speak

2087
01:13:40,470 --> 01:13:38,239
well it's it's possible it's artificial

2088
01:13:42,229 --> 01:13:40,480
you have to realize that

2089
01:13:43,750 --> 01:13:42,239
when an object is interested in

2090
01:13:46,550 --> 01:13:43,760
interstellar space it gets

2091
01:13:47,189 --> 01:13:46,560
bombarded by dust particles and and by

2092
01:13:49,669 --> 01:13:47,199
gas

2093
01:13:51,750 --> 01:13:49,679
and actually the objects that we find in

2094
01:13:53,030 --> 01:13:51,760
the ore cloud in the outer part of the

2095
01:13:56,310 --> 01:13:53,040
solar system

2096
01:13:58,390 --> 01:13:56,320
are also exposed to the same

2097
01:13:59,990 --> 01:13:58,400
environment as interstellar space

2098
01:14:01,830 --> 01:14:00,000
because the solar wind is

2099
01:14:03,430 --> 01:14:01,840
being stopped at a hundred times the

2100
01:14:05,350 --> 01:14:03,440
earth sun separation and

2101
01:14:07,270 --> 01:14:05,360
the ultra goes to a hundred thousand

2102
01:14:09,430 --> 01:14:07,280
times the earth sun separation so

2103
01:14:11,430 --> 01:14:09,440
most of the volume of the solar system

2104
01:14:14,070 --> 01:14:11,440
is exposed to interstellar space

2105
01:14:15,110 --> 01:14:14,080
in much the same way as an interstellar

2106
01:14:18,149 --> 01:14:15,120
object is

2107
01:14:20,310 --> 01:14:18,159
and then there would be damage to the

2108
01:14:21,830 --> 01:14:20,320
surface of any object traveling for

2109
01:14:24,630 --> 01:14:21,840
millions of years you know

2110
01:14:25,510 --> 01:14:24,640
just like the damage that is encountered

2111
01:14:27,510 --> 01:14:25,520
by

2112
01:14:29,510 --> 01:14:27,520
you know the comets or asteroids that

2113
01:14:30,790 --> 01:14:29,520
are out there in the outer parts of the

2114
01:14:33,590 --> 01:14:30,800
solar system so

2115
01:14:34,470 --> 01:14:33,600
i think uh if you were to take a

2116
01:14:36,870 --> 01:14:34,480
close-up

2117
01:14:39,590 --> 01:14:36,880
look at the surface you know unless it's

2118
01:14:43,030 --> 01:14:39,600
metal that is very resilient

2119
01:14:46,709 --> 01:14:43,040
to damage it would look pretty much like

2120
01:14:49,990 --> 01:14:46,719
any rock uh in terms of being

2121
01:14:52,310 --> 01:14:50,000
you know bombarded by dust particles and

2122
01:14:53,030 --> 01:14:52,320
having some small craters on it so it

2123
01:14:55,750 --> 01:14:53,040
will be rough

2124
01:14:56,070 --> 01:14:55,760
a rough surface and that's probably why

2125
01:14:59,189 --> 01:14:56,080
uh

2126
01:15:01,669 --> 01:14:59,199
it was reddish similar to the colors of

2127
01:15:03,669 --> 01:15:01,679
of objects from the outlaw but but

2128
01:15:06,390 --> 01:15:03,679
whether it's artificial or natural

2129
01:15:08,310 --> 01:15:06,400
you know you can tell that by having a

2130
01:15:10,550 --> 01:15:08,320
resolved image because

2131
01:15:12,870 --> 01:15:10,560
you can tell the shape of it and and you

2132
01:15:15,270 --> 01:15:12,880
know the thickness of it and

2133
01:15:18,310 --> 01:15:15,280
you know rock it does not resemble a

2134
01:15:23,350 --> 01:15:21,430
doesn't radiation also redden surfaces

2135
01:15:24,870 --> 01:15:23,360
or after billions of years certain types

2136
01:15:27,669 --> 01:15:24,880
of radiation right i mean

2137
01:15:28,950 --> 01:15:27,679
yes so that's another possibility right

2138
01:15:31,830 --> 01:15:28,960
for why that could be

2139
01:15:33,750 --> 01:15:31,840
reddish yeah yeah it's a radiation it's

2140
01:15:38,870 --> 01:15:33,760
also cosmic rays and and

2141
01:15:41,590 --> 01:15:38,880
bombardment by dust particles yes

2142
01:15:42,950 --> 01:15:41,600
mark yeah i i actually you know i this

2143
01:15:43,270 --> 01:15:42,960
is another one i thought of too abby

2144
01:15:45,270 --> 01:15:43,280
which

2145
01:15:46,630 --> 01:15:45,280
you know this is good stuff what can i

2146
01:15:48,310 --> 01:15:46,640
tell you i mean i i really

2147
01:15:50,229 --> 01:15:48,320
enjoy this it's a i could talk about

2148
01:15:53,110 --> 01:15:50,239
this all night unfortunately which uh

2149
01:15:54,630 --> 01:15:53,120
unfortunately for you i'm actually

2150
01:15:58,470 --> 01:15:54,640
enjoying it as well

2151
01:16:00,550 --> 01:15:58,480
excellent um i felt that um

2152
01:16:02,229 --> 01:16:00,560
you know in our solar system you know

2153
01:16:03,830 --> 01:16:02,239
there were dynamical instabilities way

2154
01:16:05,030 --> 01:16:03,840
in the beginning that ejected lots and

2155
01:16:07,189 --> 01:16:05,040
lots of things

2156
01:16:08,790 --> 01:16:07,199
and they became interstellar right

2157
01:16:11,910 --> 01:16:08,800
perhaps at some point they

2158
01:16:13,590 --> 01:16:11,920
may end up at you know the

2159
01:16:15,590 --> 01:16:13,600
local standard of rest at some point and

2160
01:16:18,229 --> 01:16:15,600
make their way into some other

2161
01:16:19,430 --> 01:16:18,239
star system at some point so we actually

2162
01:16:22,229 --> 01:16:19,440
we actually

2163
01:16:24,709 --> 01:16:22,239
wrote the paper a decade before um was

2164
01:16:28,229 --> 01:16:24,719
discovered in 2007

2165
01:16:31,270 --> 01:16:28,239
with amaya more martin and ed turner

2166
01:16:32,870 --> 01:16:31,280
that was the first paper to forecast how

2167
01:16:33,990 --> 01:16:32,880
many interstellar objects you might

2168
01:16:37,430 --> 01:16:34,000
expect as a function

2169
01:16:40,229 --> 01:16:37,440
of size based on the ejected rocks from

2170
01:16:42,950 --> 01:16:40,239
the solar system

2171
01:16:44,310 --> 01:16:42,960
we found that the population that you

2172
01:16:47,189 --> 01:16:44,320
will end up with

2173
01:16:50,229 --> 01:16:47,199
will not be detectable with pan stars it

2174
01:16:53,350 --> 01:16:50,239
was a hundred to a hundred million times

2175
01:16:54,390 --> 01:16:53,360
uh smaller than the population needed to

2176
01:16:57,189 --> 01:16:54,400
explain

2177
01:16:58,310 --> 01:16:57,199
omua moa is a member of a random set of

2178
01:17:01,430 --> 01:16:58,320
objects and

2179
01:17:05,910 --> 01:17:01,440
um so the answer is even if

2180
01:17:07,350 --> 01:17:05,920
is natural uh the factories that make or

2181
01:17:10,870 --> 01:17:07,360
more more like objects

2182
01:17:13,189 --> 01:17:10,880
uh must be unusual they cannot just be

2183
01:17:14,229 --> 01:17:13,199
you know planetary systems like the

2184
01:17:15,910 --> 01:17:14,239
solar system

2185
01:17:18,630 --> 01:17:15,920
because when we did the calculation for

2186
01:17:20,550 --> 01:17:18,640
such systems there wasn't enough stuff

2187
01:17:22,550 --> 01:17:20,560
there wasn't there weren't enough

2188
01:17:25,750 --> 01:17:22,560
objects that could be ejected

2189
01:17:27,910 --> 01:17:25,760
to account for the abundance of

2190
01:17:29,750 --> 01:17:27,920
more more like objects say that and and

2191
01:17:31,270 --> 01:17:29,760
we can infer how many or more like

2192
01:17:33,910 --> 01:17:31,280
objects are needed

2193
01:17:35,510 --> 01:17:33,920
because the pan stars telescope surveyed

2194
01:17:37,430 --> 01:17:35,520
the sky for a few years and

2195
01:17:39,830 --> 01:17:37,440
had a certain sensitivity and so you can

2196
01:17:41,270 --> 01:17:39,840
tell from the detection of one object

2197
01:17:42,950 --> 01:17:41,280
how many more should exist

2198
01:17:45,189 --> 01:17:42,960
just like going to the kitchen finding

2199
01:17:45,830 --> 01:17:45,199
an ant over a certain area of the

2200
01:17:48,229 --> 01:17:45,840
cabinet

2201
01:17:49,910 --> 01:17:48,239
and then by knowing the total area of

2202
01:17:51,350 --> 01:17:49,920
the cabinet you know how many ants are

2203
01:17:53,430 --> 01:17:51,360
out there you know how frequently you

2204
01:17:56,709 --> 01:17:53,440
would see one of them within that area

2205
01:17:58,229 --> 01:17:56,719
so it turns out that you know the

2206
01:18:00,790 --> 01:17:58,239
population is far greater

2207
01:18:01,990 --> 01:18:00,800
than expected uh based on and that's why

2208
01:18:03,590 --> 01:18:02,000
i was

2209
01:18:05,350 --> 01:18:03,600
interested you know more because i

2210
01:18:08,630 --> 01:18:05,360
didn't expect it to be found

2211
01:18:11,510 --> 01:18:08,640
in the first one of course that's based

2212
01:18:14,070 --> 01:18:11,520
on our solar system and how we evolved

2213
01:18:15,830 --> 01:18:14,080
but it a more massive system i mean we

2214
01:18:17,750 --> 01:18:15,840
we found exoplanets that have

2215
01:18:19,990 --> 01:18:17,760
multiple asteroid belts for instance so

2216
01:18:22,390 --> 01:18:20,000
amaya moro martin actually repeated the

2217
01:18:24,070 --> 01:18:22,400
my collaborator repeated that exercise

2218
01:18:26,790 --> 01:18:24,080
after the discovery for mumwa

2219
01:18:27,430 --> 01:18:26,800
and included included all types of stars

2220
01:18:32,470 --> 01:18:27,440
and

2221
01:18:33,990 --> 01:18:32,480
very difficult to account for the

2222
01:18:36,470 --> 01:18:34,000
population of objects that

2223
01:18:37,110 --> 01:18:36,480
they would explain on women you know

2224
01:18:39,750 --> 01:18:37,120
even if you

2225
01:18:42,390 --> 01:18:39,760
sum over all types of stars and

2226
01:18:45,110 --> 01:18:42,400
planetary systems around them so

2227
01:18:46,310 --> 01:18:45,120
it's enigmatic i mean as i said you

2228
01:18:48,470 --> 01:18:46,320
learn something new

2229
01:18:49,750 --> 01:18:48,480
from these objects irrespective of

2230
01:18:53,110 --> 01:18:49,760
whether they are natural or

2231
01:18:53,990 --> 01:18:53,120
artificial sure well i have kind of a

2232
01:18:57,910 --> 01:18:54,000
philosophical

2233
01:18:59,750 --> 01:18:57,920
question uh most solar systems

2234
01:19:00,950 --> 01:18:59,760
i think i think i've read this there are

2235
01:19:03,590 --> 01:19:00,960
binary

2236
01:19:04,790 --> 01:19:03,600
and i'm just wondering would that make

2237
01:19:08,470 --> 01:19:04,800
any difference

2238
01:19:11,189 --> 01:19:08,480
and this is an opinion on evolution of

2239
01:19:11,590 --> 01:19:11,199
of living creatures a binary system well

2240
01:19:14,070 --> 01:19:11,600
if the

2241
01:19:15,110 --> 01:19:14,080
okay so there is roughly crudely

2242
01:19:18,790 --> 01:19:15,120
speaking there is

2243
01:19:22,470 --> 01:19:18,800
equal probability for binary stars to be

2244
01:19:24,790 --> 01:19:22,480
uh at the per logarithmic separate

2245
01:19:26,790 --> 01:19:24,800
logarithm of separation so if you change

2246
01:19:27,990 --> 01:19:26,800
the separation between the two stars by

2247
01:19:29,910 --> 01:19:28,000
a factor of 10

2248
01:19:31,270 --> 01:19:29,920
you have roughly equal probability every

2249
01:19:34,229 --> 01:19:31,280
factor of 10

2250
01:19:36,070 --> 01:19:34,239
uh and that means that you know a

2251
01:19:38,070 --> 01:19:36,080
substantial fraction of all systems will

2252
01:19:39,030 --> 01:19:38,080
be separated by a large distance such

2253
01:19:41,110 --> 01:19:39,040
that

2254
01:19:43,350 --> 01:19:41,120
uh it wouldn't affect the inner planets

2255
01:19:44,149 --> 01:19:43,360
like in the habitable zone around each

2256
01:19:46,550 --> 01:19:44,159
star so

2257
01:19:47,189 --> 01:19:46,560
each star will have its own habitable

2258
01:19:48,870 --> 01:19:47,199
zone and

2259
01:19:50,630 --> 01:19:48,880
the two stars will be separated by a

2260
01:19:51,830 --> 01:19:50,640
large enough distance so that

2261
01:19:53,750 --> 01:19:51,840
you know it's as if you had two

2262
01:19:56,070 --> 01:19:53,760
independent stars but

2263
01:19:58,149 --> 01:19:56,080
there should still be some where the two

2264
01:20:01,189 --> 01:19:58,159
stars are close enough to affect

2265
01:20:03,189 --> 01:20:01,199
each other's habitability and that is

2266
01:20:04,550 --> 01:20:03,199
a very interesting question because the

2267
01:20:08,470 --> 01:20:04,560
question is whether it will

2268
01:20:10,550 --> 01:20:08,480
help or hurt uh the prospects for life

2269
01:20:11,750 --> 01:20:10,560
if you have two sons that are not very

2270
01:20:14,870 --> 01:20:11,760
far apart

2271
01:20:17,750 --> 01:20:14,880
you know the the other son could

2272
01:20:18,629 --> 01:20:17,760
for example disturb the orbit of the

2273
01:20:20,709 --> 01:20:18,639
planet and not

2274
01:20:22,950 --> 01:20:20,719
allow it to be circular in the way that

2275
01:20:24,950 --> 01:20:22,960
the earth is going around the sun and

2276
01:20:27,189 --> 01:20:24,960
that would have implications for the

2277
01:20:28,790 --> 01:20:27,199
feasibility the possibility of life and

2278
01:20:31,030 --> 01:20:28,800
but there would be another source of

2279
01:20:32,070 --> 01:20:31,040
light and i don't think this is worked

2280
01:20:34,149 --> 01:20:32,080
out

2281
01:20:36,229 --> 01:20:34,159
in sufficient detail this this is a very

2282
01:20:39,110 --> 01:20:36,239
interesting question and

2283
01:20:41,030 --> 01:20:39,120
it's not that most stars are are so

2284
01:20:42,070 --> 01:20:41,040
close i mean it's a small minority maybe

2285
01:20:43,990 --> 01:20:42,080
10 percent are

2286
01:20:46,310 --> 01:20:44,000
close enough for the two stars to affect

2287
01:20:48,790 --> 01:20:46,320
habitability of each one of them

2288
01:20:50,709 --> 01:20:48,800
but nevertheless it's you know it's not

2289
01:20:51,990 --> 01:20:50,719
a negligible fraction of all stars so

2290
01:20:52,550 --> 01:20:52,000
it's an interesting very interesting

2291
01:20:55,669 --> 01:20:52,560
question

2292
01:20:57,030 --> 01:20:55,679
i should say also that uh a significant

2293
01:21:00,390 --> 01:20:57,040
fraction of stars are in

2294
01:21:02,390 --> 01:21:00,400
triple systems and quadruple systems

2295
01:21:04,149 --> 01:21:02,400
despite what you know there is a long

2296
01:21:07,350 --> 01:21:04,159
tradition in a storm of discussing

2297
01:21:09,590 --> 01:21:07,360
single stars but in fact you know

2298
01:21:10,870 --> 01:21:09,600
a significant fraction are in binaries

2299
01:21:13,750 --> 01:21:10,880
like half of them

2300
01:21:15,510 --> 01:21:13,760
and the another you know quarter is in

2301
01:21:16,070 --> 01:21:15,520
triple systems that have three stars

2302
01:21:18,229 --> 01:21:16,080
like

2303
01:21:21,110 --> 01:21:18,239
the alpha centauri system is a triple

2304
01:21:23,030 --> 01:21:21,120
the next you know the one next door the

2305
01:21:24,470 --> 01:21:23,040
the three stars closest to us are a

2306
01:21:26,870 --> 01:21:24,480
triple um

2307
01:21:27,590 --> 01:21:26,880
and then then you have quadruples also

2308
01:21:30,149 --> 01:21:27,600
not

2309
01:21:31,590 --> 01:21:30,159
you know in a significant fraction of

2310
01:21:36,149 --> 01:21:31,600
all stars and

2311
01:21:38,070 --> 01:21:36,159
uh the implications of that is not fully

2312
01:21:39,590 --> 01:21:38,080
understood in in in the scientific

2313
01:21:41,830 --> 01:21:39,600
literature you know and

2314
01:21:42,709 --> 01:21:41,840
it doesn't just affect habitability it

2315
01:21:45,590 --> 01:21:42,719
affects

2316
01:21:47,510 --> 01:21:45,600
a lot of other aspects of the evolution

2317
01:21:49,430 --> 01:21:47,520
of stars because one star can affect the

2318
01:21:51,590 --> 01:21:49,440
evolution of another and

2319
01:21:54,070 --> 01:21:51,600
um you know still work there is still

2320
01:21:56,229 --> 01:21:54,080
work to do for younger people

2321
01:21:58,229 --> 01:21:56,239
yeah right think about the two stars

2322
01:22:00,229 --> 01:21:58,239
side by side at one point and then

2323
01:22:01,750 --> 01:22:00,239
one goes behind the other well if you're

2324
01:22:03,270 --> 01:22:01,760
in that same plane of the orbit

2325
01:22:05,590 --> 01:22:03,280
at this point you're getting a lot more

2326
01:22:07,030 --> 01:22:05,600
radiation per square meter on your

2327
01:22:09,189 --> 01:22:07,040
surface and then here

2328
01:22:10,149 --> 01:22:09,199
you're getting a lot less so will that

2329
01:22:12,950 --> 01:22:10,159
variation

2330
01:22:13,830 --> 01:22:12,960
change the capability uh of life to

2331
01:22:16,229 --> 01:22:13,840
develop i mean

2332
01:22:17,270 --> 01:22:16,239
yeah a very very interesting thing to

2333
01:22:19,270 --> 01:22:17,280
explore yeah

2334
01:22:21,750 --> 01:22:19,280
uh but think about how beautiful the

2335
01:22:24,790 --> 01:22:21,760
view is to have two suns in the sky

2336
01:22:26,709 --> 01:22:24,800
you can never sleep sunsets sunsets all

2337
01:22:31,110 --> 01:22:26,719
the time or is it rising i can't tell

2338
01:22:34,229 --> 01:22:31,120
yeah the sun's set yeah

2339
01:22:37,590 --> 01:22:34,239
plural yeah that's right so

2340
01:22:39,910 --> 01:22:37,600
we can take calls um starting fairly

2341
01:22:44,229 --> 01:22:39,920
soon but you have another question mark

2342
01:22:46,070 --> 01:22:44,239
i'm actually um i uh

2343
01:22:47,510 --> 01:22:46,080
okay we we talked about you know the

2344
01:22:49,189 --> 01:22:47,520
ultimatuly in our

2345
01:22:51,430 --> 01:22:49,199
kuiper belt the kuiper belt object that

2346
01:22:53,030 --> 01:22:51,440
new horizons went through after pluto

2347
01:22:55,270 --> 01:22:53,040
and of course that was a contact binary

2348
01:22:57,750 --> 01:22:55,280
of two pancake objects

2349
01:22:59,110 --> 01:22:57,760
right so i'm thinking how that's

2350
01:23:03,270 --> 01:22:59,120
interesting because

2351
01:23:06,629 --> 01:23:03,280
if umua was really a pancake object

2352
01:23:09,510 --> 01:23:06,639
is it possible that omuamua

2353
01:23:11,189 --> 01:23:09,520
was not again not from our solar system

2354
01:23:11,910 --> 01:23:11,199
but from another star system but was an

2355
01:23:15,110 --> 01:23:11,920
ejected

2356
01:23:15,750 --> 01:23:15,120
uh well foreign kuiper belt object that

2357
01:23:17,910 --> 01:23:15,760
actually

2358
01:23:18,950 --> 01:23:17,920
was ejected somehow and came here i

2359
01:23:21,270 --> 01:23:18,960
don't understand

2360
01:23:22,149 --> 01:23:21,280
the mechanics by that because it would

2361
01:23:23,830 --> 01:23:22,159
seem to be

2362
01:23:25,430 --> 01:23:23,840
real traumatic for that to actually

2363
01:23:28,709 --> 01:23:25,440
happen well

2364
01:23:30,870 --> 01:23:28,719
so it wasn't it couldn't have been

2365
01:23:32,709 --> 01:23:30,880
a contact binary or two two objects

2366
01:23:34,870 --> 01:23:32,719
because

2367
01:23:35,990 --> 01:23:34,880
it was spinning around every eight hours

2368
01:23:38,709 --> 01:23:36,000
and uh

2369
01:23:39,669 --> 01:23:38,719
you wouldn't get that behavior um given

2370
01:23:42,149 --> 01:23:39,679
the the

2371
01:23:43,430 --> 01:23:42,159
the tidal force from the sun uh it would

2372
01:23:46,550 --> 01:23:43,440
not work out

2373
01:23:48,950 --> 01:23:46,560
uh but then uh in principle we don't

2374
01:23:50,950 --> 01:23:48,960
know where it came from and you know

2375
01:23:52,149 --> 01:23:50,960
the thing is that it came from the local

2376
01:23:54,870 --> 01:23:52,159
standard of rest and

2377
01:23:57,110 --> 01:23:54,880
and and there is no star in that the

2378
01:23:59,830 --> 01:23:57,120
frame that we can associate it with

2379
01:24:01,669 --> 01:23:59,840
if it was the most likely origin would

2380
01:24:01,990 --> 01:24:01,679
be from an old cloud because that's the

2381
01:24:04,470 --> 01:24:02,000
place

2382
01:24:06,790 --> 01:24:04,480
where most objects are loosely bound to

2383
01:24:09,750 --> 01:24:06,800
their star and you can rip them apart by

2384
01:24:12,070 --> 01:24:09,760
a passing star and but that then they

2385
01:24:14,550 --> 01:24:12,080
would share the motion of the

2386
01:24:16,229 --> 01:24:14,560
apparent star and we haven't seen a

2387
01:24:17,270 --> 01:24:16,239
parent star that shares the motion of

2388
01:24:19,830 --> 01:24:17,280
umuah

2389
01:24:20,950 --> 01:24:19,840
yeah what is a what is a planetesimal

2390
01:24:23,110 --> 01:24:20,960
ejection

2391
01:24:24,709 --> 01:24:23,120
planetesimal is just like a lego

2392
01:24:27,990 --> 01:24:24,719
building block of planets

2393
01:24:31,669 --> 01:24:28,000
so the way that planets are believed to

2394
01:24:33,270 --> 01:24:31,679
perform is that you have some debris

2395
01:24:35,030 --> 01:24:33,280
from the formation of the star

2396
01:24:36,470 --> 01:24:35,040
okay so when the sun formed it was a

2397
01:24:39,669 --> 01:24:36,480
cloud of gas

2398
01:24:40,149 --> 01:24:39,679
that collapsed and cooled and made the

2399
01:24:42,390 --> 01:24:40,159
sun

2400
01:24:43,430 --> 01:24:42,400
okay but there was some debris left over

2401
01:24:45,590 --> 01:24:43,440
from the sun about

2402
01:24:46,470 --> 01:24:45,600
you know a few percent of the mass of

2403
01:24:49,189 --> 01:24:46,480
the sun

2404
01:24:49,669 --> 01:24:49,199
and that debris uh cooled and made a

2405
01:24:51,669 --> 01:24:49,679
disc

2406
01:24:53,110 --> 01:24:51,679
of material around the sun and was

2407
01:24:55,350 --> 01:24:53,120
orbiting around

2408
01:24:56,709 --> 01:24:55,360
and then out of this disk of material

2409
01:24:59,590 --> 01:24:56,719
the heavy elements

2410
01:25:01,350 --> 01:24:59,600
sunk to the mid plane and they started

2411
01:25:02,790 --> 01:25:01,360
making dust particles and the dust

2412
01:25:05,189 --> 01:25:02,800
particles stuck together

2413
01:25:06,709 --> 01:25:05,199
to make bigger and bigger objects these

2414
01:25:08,470 --> 01:25:06,719
were the planetesimals

2415
01:25:10,709 --> 01:25:08,480
rocks you know that got bigger and

2416
01:25:11,350 --> 01:25:10,719
bigger by sticking together and then

2417
01:25:13,590 --> 01:25:11,360
eventually

2418
01:25:15,669 --> 01:25:13,600
the force of gravity bound them together

2419
01:25:17,510 --> 01:25:15,679
to make rocky objects like this

2420
01:25:19,110 --> 01:25:17,520
like the earth you know the earth is a

2421
01:25:21,510 --> 01:25:19,120
rock um

2422
01:25:22,310 --> 01:25:21,520
jupiter in addition to the rock in the

2423
01:25:24,550 --> 01:25:22,320
interior

2424
01:25:27,030 --> 01:25:24,560
is believe you know uh the rocker

2425
01:25:30,870 --> 01:25:27,040
created hydrogen and helium and

2426
01:25:32,390 --> 01:25:30,880
and became a gas giant but um

2427
01:25:34,470 --> 01:25:32,400
the initial building blocks are

2428
01:25:37,750 --> 01:25:34,480
basically planetesimals these are

2429
01:25:39,189 --> 01:25:37,760
just like lego pieces that come together

2430
01:25:41,189 --> 01:25:39,199
and make the planets and

2431
01:25:42,229 --> 01:25:41,199
many of these lego pieces were scattered

2432
01:25:45,030 --> 01:25:42,239
around and

2433
01:25:46,870 --> 01:25:45,040
they make up today the the oort cloud

2434
01:25:49,910 --> 01:25:46,880
they they are the rocks that

2435
01:25:51,189 --> 01:25:49,920
existed early on and were scattered by

2436
01:25:54,390 --> 01:25:51,199
the planets and

2437
01:25:56,149 --> 01:25:54,400
uh so by examining them we can tell what

2438
01:25:59,430 --> 01:25:56,159
the initial

2439
01:26:01,590 --> 01:25:59,440
lego pieces were i didn't even put up

2440
01:26:03,510 --> 01:26:01,600
the phone number yet but we have kevin

2441
01:26:05,830 --> 01:26:03,520
from augusta georgia on the line kevin

2442
01:26:08,149 --> 01:26:05,840
welcome to the show

2443
01:26:09,189 --> 01:26:08,159
hey martin how are you doing i'm well

2444
01:26:11,830 --> 01:26:09,199
how are you

2445
01:26:12,310 --> 01:26:11,840
you remembered the number how about that

2446
01:26:31,990 --> 01:26:12,320
i

2447
01:26:34,870 --> 01:26:32,000
energy

2448
01:26:37,510 --> 01:26:34,880
and there's a certain amount of cultural

2449
01:26:39,430 --> 01:26:37,520
inertia that goes on with science

2450
01:26:41,750 --> 01:26:39,440
and so i just i just like to hear his

2451
01:26:45,430 --> 01:26:41,760
comment about

2452
01:26:48,550 --> 01:26:45,440
you know why is it

2453
01:26:51,350 --> 01:26:48,560
that so many scientists and i've had

2454
01:26:53,110 --> 01:26:51,360
tons of conversations with scientists

2455
01:26:55,189 --> 01:26:53,120
and national laboratories

2456
01:26:56,390 --> 01:26:55,199
who know that there's a lot we don't

2457
01:26:59,350 --> 01:26:56,400
know yet

2458
01:26:59,990 --> 01:26:59,360
and why is it they're not willing to

2459
01:27:03,189 --> 01:27:00,000
kind of

2460
01:27:06,790 --> 01:27:03,199
you know go to new ground is

2461
01:27:07,590 --> 01:27:06,800
is funding all of it or i just want to

2462
01:27:11,189 --> 01:27:07,600
hear is

2463
01:27:13,189 --> 01:27:11,199
his his thoughts yeah so i i

2464
01:27:14,310 --> 01:27:13,199
thank you for the question i do think

2465
01:27:18,149 --> 01:27:14,320
that

2466
01:27:21,270 --> 01:27:18,159
are

2467
01:27:24,070 --> 01:27:21,280
afraid of taking risks or or

2468
01:27:25,510 --> 01:27:24,080
innovating and basically getting out of

2469
01:27:27,110 --> 01:27:25,520
their comfort zone and

2470
01:27:29,750 --> 01:27:27,120
one thing we learned from the history of

2471
01:27:31,750 --> 01:27:29,760
physics is very often

2472
01:27:33,510 --> 01:27:31,760
you know important discoveries take you

2473
01:27:35,350 --> 01:27:33,520
out of your comfort zone for example

2474
01:27:37,350 --> 01:27:35,360
quantum mechanics you know one of the

2475
01:27:39,270 --> 01:27:37,360
main pillars of physics

2476
01:27:41,669 --> 01:27:39,280
took a lot of physicists out of their

2477
01:27:43,750 --> 01:27:41,679
comfort zone including albert einstein

2478
01:27:45,669 --> 01:27:43,760
he argued that quantum mechanics cannot

2479
01:27:48,070 --> 01:27:45,679
have spooky action at the distance

2480
01:27:49,270 --> 01:27:48,080
and he was wrong so even a hundred years

2481
01:27:51,669 --> 01:27:49,280
later after

2482
01:27:53,350 --> 01:27:51,679
after the discovery of quantum mechanics

2483
01:27:54,310 --> 01:27:53,360
it still makes a lot of physicists

2484
01:27:57,189 --> 01:27:54,320
uncomfortable but

2485
01:27:59,350 --> 01:27:57,199
but who cares that's what reality is and

2486
01:28:00,149 --> 01:27:59,360
we should be guided by evidence not by

2487
01:28:03,030 --> 01:28:00,159
the

2488
01:28:05,669 --> 01:28:03,040
uh prejudice that physicists have to be

2489
01:28:08,470 --> 01:28:05,679
in their comfort zone that that's the

2490
01:28:09,430 --> 01:28:08,480
moral of this story and uh unfortunately

2491
01:28:11,510 --> 01:28:09,440
not many

2492
01:28:13,110 --> 01:28:11,520
physicists are courageous enough to

2493
01:28:15,430 --> 01:28:13,120
accept that

2494
01:28:17,350 --> 01:28:15,440
the the evidence should be the key they

2495
01:28:19,110 --> 01:28:17,360
prefer to believe in

2496
01:28:20,629 --> 01:28:19,120
you know to stay in their comfort zone

2497
01:28:21,030 --> 01:28:20,639
and you know it's not very different

2498
01:28:22,870 --> 01:28:21,040
than

2499
01:28:24,310 --> 01:28:22,880
what happened during the days of galileo

2500
01:28:25,590 --> 01:28:24,320
where everyone thought that the sun

2501
01:28:27,669 --> 01:28:25,600
moves around the earth

2502
01:28:29,590 --> 01:28:27,679
that was the more comfortable position

2503
01:28:31,110 --> 01:28:29,600
obviously it was flattering your ego to

2504
01:28:32,229 --> 01:28:31,120
believe that we are in the center of the

2505
01:28:33,990 --> 01:28:32,239
universe and

2506
01:28:36,149 --> 01:28:34,000
uh it also was consistent with some

2507
01:28:38,629 --> 01:28:36,159
religious uh beliefs and

2508
01:28:39,430 --> 01:28:38,639
so everyone agreed to that and that was

2509
01:28:41,830 --> 01:28:39,440
it but

2510
01:28:44,470 --> 01:28:41,840
the point is science is not a matter of

2511
01:28:46,790 --> 01:28:44,480
consensus it's not a majority view

2512
01:28:48,390 --> 01:28:46,800
it's not like politics it it should be

2513
01:28:51,510 --> 01:28:48,400
based on evidence and

2514
01:28:53,669 --> 01:28:51,520
a single individual may make the correct

2515
01:28:55,910 --> 01:28:53,679
argument based on the evidence it's not

2516
01:28:57,350 --> 01:28:55,920
a matter of popularity contest

2517
01:28:59,270 --> 01:28:57,360
you know it doesn't depend on the number

2518
01:29:00,310 --> 01:28:59,280
of likes on twitter it just depends on

2519
01:29:02,550 --> 01:29:00,320
the evidence

2520
01:29:03,350 --> 01:29:02,560
and that's what um unfortunately many

2521
01:29:06,950 --> 01:29:03,360
people uh

2522
01:29:10,390 --> 01:29:06,960
including scientists are failing to to

2523
01:29:12,709 --> 01:29:10,400
accept and uh the the issue of funding

2524
01:29:13,830 --> 01:29:12,719
is is a by-product you know when the

2525
01:29:17,510 --> 01:29:13,840
scientific community

2526
01:29:20,709 --> 01:29:17,520
has a mainstream that is uh reluctant to

2527
01:29:22,790 --> 01:29:20,719
uh uh innovate

2528
01:29:25,110 --> 01:29:22,800
then the committees that provide the

2529
01:29:28,149 --> 01:29:25,120
funding are reluctant to innovate

2530
01:29:28,870 --> 01:29:28,159
uh you know and and what i find strange

2531
01:29:31,510 --> 01:29:28,880
is that

2532
01:29:32,390 --> 01:29:31,520
in the commercial sector in companies

2533
01:29:36,229 --> 01:29:32,400
like

2534
01:29:39,189 --> 01:29:36,239
google spacex and others and apple

2535
01:29:40,390 --> 01:29:39,199
you find much more risk-taking than in

2536
01:29:43,030 --> 01:29:40,400
academia

2537
01:29:44,070 --> 01:29:43,040
and you that is really paradoxical

2538
01:29:46,709 --> 01:29:44,080
because there are

2539
01:29:47,830 --> 01:29:46,719
these these entities these companies are

2540
01:29:51,110 --> 01:29:47,840
for-profit

2541
01:29:53,270 --> 01:29:51,120
and academia is not for profit so

2542
01:29:54,310 --> 01:29:53,280
in principle and and also academia has

2543
01:29:57,189 --> 01:29:54,320
tenure which

2544
01:29:58,709 --> 01:29:57,199
is supposed to give but professors the

2545
01:30:01,990 --> 01:29:58,719
freedom of mind so that they

2546
01:30:05,590 --> 01:30:02,000
would not be worried about their job uh

2547
01:30:09,669 --> 01:30:05,600
prospects and uh nevertheless uh

2548
01:30:11,750 --> 01:30:09,679
somehow the current culture is much more

2549
01:30:13,110 --> 01:30:11,760
conservative and less daring less

2550
01:30:15,350 --> 01:30:13,120
risk-taking

2551
01:30:16,709 --> 01:30:15,360
a lot of scientists are worried about

2552
01:30:18,870 --> 01:30:16,719
putting skin in the game

2553
01:30:19,990 --> 01:30:18,880
and and making you know getting into

2554
01:30:23,030 --> 01:30:20,000
subjects that may risk

2555
01:30:23,430 --> 01:30:23,040
their uh you know reputation and you

2556
01:30:25,110 --> 01:30:23,440
know

2557
01:30:27,270 --> 01:30:25,120
and and that is really unfortunate

2558
01:30:29,590 --> 01:30:27,280
because um

2559
01:30:31,830 --> 01:30:29,600
we you know we will not discover new

2560
01:30:35,110 --> 01:30:31,840
things if we don't dare to to

2561
01:30:36,950 --> 01:30:35,120
find them and you know i see that mostly

2562
01:30:39,110 --> 01:30:36,960
the thing that bothers me the most is

2563
01:30:40,709 --> 01:30:39,120
that in the culture of theoretical

2564
01:30:42,950 --> 01:30:40,719
physics right now there are lots of

2565
01:30:43,990 --> 01:30:42,960
speculative ideas like extra dimensions

2566
01:30:47,590 --> 01:30:44,000
string theory

2567
01:30:51,110 --> 01:30:47,600
the multiverse you know super string

2568
01:30:53,030 --> 01:30:51,120
super symmetry uh and those ideas are

2569
01:30:54,790 --> 01:30:53,040
not supported by experimental evidence

2570
01:30:57,430 --> 01:30:54,800
and nevertheless they have a very

2571
01:30:58,790 --> 01:30:57,440
elevated status they are popular uh in

2572
01:31:00,709 --> 01:30:58,800
the mainstream and

2573
01:31:02,550 --> 01:31:00,719
how do you understand that given that

2574
01:31:04,229 --> 01:31:02,560
there is no evidence it's because

2575
01:31:06,149 --> 01:31:04,239
there is no experimental check and

2576
01:31:08,070 --> 01:31:06,159
therefore the people that work on these

2577
01:31:08,790 --> 01:31:08,080
subjects do not put any skin in the game

2578
01:31:10,709 --> 01:31:08,800
they cannot

2579
01:31:12,070 --> 01:31:10,719
be proven wrong and that's a very

2580
01:31:14,229 --> 01:31:12,080
comfortable place to be

2581
01:31:16,310 --> 01:31:14,239
you just demonstrate that you are smart

2582
01:31:19,030 --> 01:31:16,320
by making mathematical

2583
01:31:20,390 --> 01:31:19,040
gymnastics and you can never be proven

2584
01:31:22,070 --> 01:31:20,400
wrong because there are no experiments

2585
01:31:23,910 --> 01:31:22,080
to test your ideas

2586
01:31:25,110 --> 01:31:23,920
and that's a more comfortable place to

2587
01:31:28,390 --> 01:31:25,120
be than

2588
01:31:31,430 --> 01:31:28,400
testing your ideas against evidence

2589
01:31:35,030 --> 01:31:31,440
so how do we move how do we move uh

2590
01:31:37,110 --> 01:31:35,040
traditional science uh off of that

2591
01:31:39,590 --> 01:31:37,120
you know paradigm where they have

2592
01:31:42,950 --> 01:31:39,600
comfort and no one has to sit out

2593
01:31:43,270 --> 01:31:42,960
because honestly it seeps into ufology

2594
01:31:46,229 --> 01:31:43,280
too

2595
01:31:47,830 --> 01:31:46,239
so you have i mean really great people i

2596
01:31:48,709 --> 01:31:47,840
mean i'm i was involved with the

2597
01:31:51,510 --> 01:31:48,719
scientists

2598
01:31:53,430 --> 01:31:51,520
scientific pollution for ufology but

2599
01:31:55,590 --> 01:31:53,440
it's the same paradigm

2600
01:31:57,430 --> 01:31:55,600
where you face a situation where the

2601
01:31:59,590 --> 01:31:57,440
tools might not be right

2602
01:32:00,470 --> 01:31:59,600
but we're not thinking enough outside

2603
01:32:03,669 --> 01:32:00,480
the box

2604
01:32:05,990 --> 01:32:03,679
yeah so i i have i think the way to

2605
01:32:08,390 --> 01:32:06,000
change the culture is to reward people

2606
01:32:11,110 --> 01:32:08,400
that are willing to take risks

2607
01:32:12,149 --> 01:32:11,120
so right now the reward system is geared

2608
01:32:14,870 --> 01:32:12,159
towards

2609
01:32:16,550 --> 01:32:14,880
you know it's being done by uh selection

2610
01:32:18,629 --> 01:32:16,560
committees that are made of the same

2611
01:32:20,629 --> 01:32:18,639
people that do not innovate you see

2612
01:32:22,390 --> 01:32:20,639
and if you were to change the reward

2613
01:32:23,830 --> 01:32:22,400
system where you reward people that are

2614
01:32:26,149 --> 01:32:23,840
willing to take risks

2615
01:32:28,229 --> 01:32:26,159
even if they fail you know at least they

2616
01:32:29,030 --> 01:32:28,239
went in some original direction that is

2617
01:32:33,590 --> 01:32:29,040
out of the

2618
01:32:36,310 --> 01:32:33,600
if you reward such people then

2619
01:32:38,390 --> 01:32:36,320
more will follow uh because it will be

2620
01:32:40,870 --> 01:32:38,400
recognized that that's a bit a benefit

2621
01:32:42,229 --> 01:32:40,880
you know that it enhances our chance of

2622
01:32:44,070 --> 01:32:42,239
discovery and

2623
01:32:45,830 --> 01:32:44,080
uh so that has to change i think the

2624
01:32:48,390 --> 01:32:45,840
reward system that the

2625
01:32:50,310 --> 01:32:48,400
uh grants the funding that we give

2626
01:32:51,990 --> 01:32:50,320
should be geared towards innovation more

2627
01:32:53,189 --> 01:32:52,000
than towards repeating things that we

2628
01:32:55,189 --> 01:32:53,199
already know

2629
01:32:56,550 --> 01:32:55,199
and the other thing is i'm hoping you

2630
01:32:58,629 --> 01:32:56,560
know i wrote my book

2631
01:33:00,550 --> 01:32:58,639
for the younger generation because you

2632
01:33:01,110 --> 01:33:00,560
know you wouldn't expect marian to

2633
01:33:03,750 --> 01:33:01,120
annette

2634
01:33:05,590 --> 01:33:03,760
to embrace the principles of the french

2635
01:33:06,870 --> 01:33:05,600
revolution because she benefited from

2636
01:33:08,870 --> 01:33:06,880
the old system

2637
01:33:10,550 --> 01:33:08,880
and so the people that are thriving in

2638
01:33:11,750 --> 01:33:10,560
the current intellectual culture of

2639
01:33:13,430 --> 01:33:11,760
academia

2640
01:33:14,790 --> 01:33:13,440
will never change it because they

2641
01:33:17,270 --> 01:33:14,800
benefit from it

2642
01:33:19,350 --> 01:33:17,280
they created the system that they enjoy

2643
01:33:20,310 --> 01:33:19,360
they have these comfort zones and they

2644
01:33:22,070 --> 01:33:20,320
enjoy them

2645
01:33:23,910 --> 01:33:22,080
if you were to move them away from those

2646
01:33:27,430 --> 01:33:23,920
comfort zone they would get upset

2647
01:33:29,510 --> 01:33:27,440
and they do get upset so my hope is the

2648
01:33:30,229 --> 01:33:29,520
younger generation will not come in with

2649
01:33:32,390 --> 01:33:30,239
those

2650
01:33:33,430 --> 01:33:32,400
prejudices and perhaps will be more

2651
01:33:34,870 --> 01:33:33,440
open-minded and

2652
01:33:37,110 --> 01:33:34,880
i wrote my book for the younger

2653
01:33:38,709 --> 01:33:37,120
generation excellent

2654
01:33:40,950 --> 01:33:38,719
well thank you dr love and thank you

2655
01:33:42,629 --> 01:33:40,960
martin thanks thanks kevin great

2656
01:33:45,189 --> 01:33:42,639
questions

2657
01:33:45,750 --> 01:33:45,199
all right now we have uh uh and i'll get

2658
01:33:48,550 --> 01:33:45,760
back to you

2659
01:33:49,590 --> 01:33:48,560
uh mark uh after this i know you have

2660
01:33:52,310 --> 01:33:49,600
more questions

2661
01:33:53,990 --> 01:33:52,320
um greg from north carolina welcome to

2662
01:33:57,270 --> 01:33:54,000
the show

2663
01:34:00,149 --> 01:33:57,280
thank you martin hi avi hi mark

2664
01:34:02,229 --> 01:34:00,159
how are you how you doing you got a

2665
01:34:04,790 --> 01:34:02,239
question for our guest

2666
01:34:06,629 --> 01:34:04,800
sure sure you know i you mentioned that

2667
01:34:09,030 --> 01:34:06,639
we're getting better at tracking

2668
01:34:10,709 --> 01:34:09,040
things that come into our solar system

2669
01:34:11,990 --> 01:34:10,719
and this is way out there but i was just

2670
01:34:15,270 --> 01:34:12,000
wondering

2671
01:34:15,669 --> 01:34:15,280
what would it take to capture one of

2672
01:34:18,070 --> 01:34:15,679
these

2673
01:34:19,110 --> 01:34:18,080
objects and would it even be wise to do

2674
01:34:22,470 --> 01:34:19,120
that

2675
01:34:25,910 --> 01:34:22,480
and pull it into a an earth orbit or a

2676
01:34:29,590 --> 01:34:25,920
orbit around the sun to study it further

2677
01:34:32,149 --> 01:34:29,600
right so um uh it's not a trivial matter

2678
01:34:34,709 --> 01:34:32,159
to bring such an object to earth but

2679
01:34:36,550 --> 01:34:34,719
what we can do are two things one is

2680
01:34:39,910 --> 01:34:36,560
potentially we can land on it

2681
01:34:40,950 --> 01:34:39,920
and study it from up close but we can

2682
01:34:43,750 --> 01:34:40,960
also look for

2683
01:34:46,709 --> 01:34:43,760
interstellar meteors these are objects

2684
01:34:49,830 --> 01:34:46,719
that collide with the earth

2685
01:34:51,750 --> 01:34:49,840
so most of the meteors that we see are

2686
01:34:53,750 --> 01:34:51,760
coming from the solar system and we can

2687
01:34:54,149 --> 01:34:53,760
tell that because we see the motion that

2688
01:35:00,790 --> 01:34:54,159
they

2689
01:35:02,790 --> 01:35:00,800
to burn up as meteors and there would be

2690
01:35:03,830 --> 01:35:02,800
a small minority of all meteors that

2691
01:35:06,870 --> 01:35:03,840
will have

2692
01:35:08,709 --> 01:35:06,880
initial velocity that is

2693
01:35:10,629 --> 01:35:08,719
such that it would indicate they come

2694
01:35:13,750 --> 01:35:10,639
from interstellar space

2695
01:35:15,910 --> 01:35:13,760
and i call them interstellar meteors

2696
01:35:17,910 --> 01:35:15,920
and if we find those interstellar

2697
01:35:20,390 --> 01:35:17,920
meteors which we can

2698
01:35:22,629 --> 01:35:20,400
then you know if they're big enough

2699
01:35:24,870 --> 01:35:22,639
bigger than the size of a person then

2700
01:35:25,910 --> 01:35:24,880
they will not burn up all together there

2701
01:35:29,109 --> 01:35:25,920
would be some

2702
01:35:30,070 --> 01:35:29,119
something left from them when they reach

2703
01:35:32,790 --> 01:35:30,080
the ground

2704
01:35:34,950 --> 01:35:32,800
and then we can examine that so instead

2705
01:35:36,149 --> 01:35:34,960
of capturing an interstellar object what

2706
01:35:39,270 --> 01:35:36,159
we can look for

2707
01:35:40,229 --> 01:35:39,280
are interstellar meteors that we can

2708
01:35:43,590 --> 01:35:40,239
examine when

2709
01:35:46,870 --> 01:35:43,600
they hit the ground and in addition

2710
01:35:48,310 --> 01:35:46,880
you know the moon and the uh potentially

2711
01:35:49,830 --> 01:35:48,320
even mars but

2712
01:35:52,070 --> 01:35:49,840
let's focus on the moon because it's

2713
01:35:55,030 --> 01:35:52,080
nearby the moon collected

2714
01:35:57,270 --> 01:35:55,040
uh all the objects that impacted on it

2715
01:35:59,990 --> 01:35:57,280
over the past few billion years

2716
01:36:00,629 --> 01:36:00,000
because it has no geological activity on

2717
01:36:02,709 --> 01:36:00,639
earth

2718
01:36:04,310 --> 01:36:02,719
everything that is on the surface right

2719
01:36:05,990 --> 01:36:04,320
now you know will get mixed by

2720
01:36:08,550 --> 01:36:06,000
geological activity

2721
01:36:10,629 --> 01:36:08,560
within 100 million years from now and

2722
01:36:11,270 --> 01:36:10,639
but on the moon there is not such mixing

2723
01:36:14,310 --> 01:36:11,280
and

2724
01:36:16,870 --> 01:36:14,320
the moon is within

2725
01:36:18,070 --> 01:36:16,880
a few meters from the surface layer

2726
01:36:20,790 --> 01:36:18,080
right now and

2727
01:36:21,189 --> 01:36:20,800
um and so the moon collected everything

2728
01:36:22,870 --> 01:36:21,199
and

2729
01:36:24,229 --> 01:36:22,880
also it doesn't have an atmosphere so

2730
01:36:26,629 --> 01:36:24,239
nothing burned up

2731
01:36:28,390 --> 01:36:26,639
and so one way to think of the moon is

2732
01:36:30,790 --> 01:36:28,400
like a museum you know

2733
01:36:32,709 --> 01:36:30,800
when we establish a sustainable base on

2734
01:36:35,270 --> 01:36:32,719
on the moon we should

2735
01:36:35,830 --> 01:36:35,280
go around and search on the surface for

2736
01:36:38,629 --> 01:36:35,840
any

2737
01:36:39,990 --> 01:36:38,639
equipment that may have been collected

2738
01:36:42,790 --> 01:36:40,000
as a result of

2739
01:36:44,229 --> 01:36:42,800
impacting the the moon so i think we

2740
01:36:47,109 --> 01:36:44,239
have opportunities

2741
01:36:48,950 --> 01:36:47,119
either by intestinal meteors or

2742
01:36:51,669 --> 01:36:48,960
searching the moon surface

2743
01:36:51,990 --> 01:36:51,679
to find pieces of equipment that hit the

2744
01:36:54,550 --> 01:36:52,000
moon

2745
01:36:55,990 --> 01:36:54,560
or the earth over the past few billion

2746
01:36:58,310 --> 01:36:56,000
years

2747
01:37:00,550 --> 01:36:58,320
great great very good well i appreciate

2748
01:37:04,070 --> 01:37:00,560
you answering that question

2749
01:37:07,270 --> 01:37:04,080
thanks for the call thank you martin

2750
01:37:10,550 --> 01:37:07,280
all right next we have lewis los angeles

2751
01:37:12,870 --> 01:37:10,560
lewis welcome to the show hey martin

2752
01:37:15,910 --> 01:37:12,880
thank you for having me on as always

2753
01:37:19,109 --> 01:37:15,920
what a killer guest i absolutely love

2754
01:37:21,430 --> 01:37:19,119
love love this show um avi i think i

2755
01:37:22,310 --> 01:37:21,440
have seen every single interview you've

2756
01:37:25,750 --> 01:37:22,320
done

2757
01:37:28,629 --> 01:37:25,760
um again with doing an excellent one my

2758
01:37:29,590 --> 01:37:28,639
favorite publication that you've done

2759
01:37:31,750 --> 01:37:29,600
yet

2760
01:37:33,270 --> 01:37:31,760
is the interview you did with the

2761
01:37:37,030 --> 01:37:33,280
scientific american

2762
01:37:39,109 --> 01:37:37,040
i believe it was yes the journalist

2763
01:37:40,310 --> 01:37:39,119
that was coming at you with these

2764
01:37:43,830 --> 01:37:40,320
questions

2765
01:37:46,310 --> 01:37:43,840
was really pompous and very aggressive

2766
01:37:48,070 --> 01:37:46,320
and at first it turned me off but what

2767
01:37:51,750 --> 01:37:48,080
set me at ease

2768
01:37:55,109 --> 01:37:51,760
was your confidence and your rebuttals

2769
01:37:57,750 --> 01:37:55,119
to these really hard questions

2770
01:37:59,750 --> 01:37:57,760
you almost made him look foolish by the

2771
01:38:01,510 --> 01:37:59,760
end

2772
01:38:03,830 --> 01:38:01,520
and it was a text interview you could

2773
01:38:06,550 --> 01:38:03,840
only read this interview and i was just

2774
01:38:08,229 --> 01:38:06,560
i stood up and applauded by myself and

2775
01:38:09,669 --> 01:38:08,239
my bedroom when i was done reading it

2776
01:38:13,990 --> 01:38:09,679
because i'm like this

2777
01:38:17,830 --> 01:38:14,000
we need more overloads in in this world

2778
01:38:21,030 --> 01:38:17,840
and so my question to you sir is

2779
01:38:24,550 --> 01:38:21,040
how do we get your colleagues

2780
01:38:27,910 --> 01:38:24,560
and your peers to get their heads

2781
01:38:30,629 --> 01:38:27,920
out of their collective butts and start

2782
01:38:31,590 --> 01:38:30,639
looking at this data with a more open

2783
01:38:35,109 --> 01:38:31,600
mind with a

2784
01:38:38,709 --> 01:38:35,119
child-like eyes what do we need to

2785
01:38:41,990 --> 01:38:38,719
do to get these guys on board and stop

2786
01:38:42,310 --> 01:38:42,000
being so stubborn and close-minded about

2787
01:38:44,470 --> 01:38:42,320
this

2788
01:38:45,830 --> 01:38:44,480
thank you for taking the question thank

2789
01:38:48,070 --> 01:38:45,840
you so much for doing

2790
01:38:50,149 --> 01:38:48,080
all of these interviews and putting all

2791
01:38:53,189 --> 01:38:50,159
of this wonderful information out there

2792
01:38:54,629 --> 01:38:53,199
you truly truly truly are making some

2793
01:38:57,430 --> 01:38:54,639
wonderful headway

2794
01:38:58,550 --> 01:38:57,440
in the topic thank you very much for the

2795
01:39:00,709 --> 01:38:58,560
kind words i mean

2796
01:39:02,870 --> 01:39:00,719
uh you know these these interviews there

2797
01:39:04,149 --> 01:39:02,880
were about 300 of them over the past

2798
01:39:06,790 --> 01:39:04,159
eight weeks and

2799
01:39:08,310 --> 01:39:06,800
most of my days started at 4 00 a.m in

2800
01:39:11,350 --> 01:39:08,320
order to accommodate

2801
01:39:12,390 --> 01:39:11,360
those back back interviews and uh i

2802
01:39:16,470 --> 01:39:12,400
should say that

2803
01:39:20,629 --> 01:39:16,480
uh that you know the general public's uh

2804
01:39:23,350 --> 01:39:20,639
uh view was pretty much our heart was

2805
01:39:24,310 --> 01:39:23,360
right on target and uh i resonated with

2806
01:39:27,430 --> 01:39:24,320
the general public

2807
01:39:29,590 --> 01:39:27,440
a lot and uh just like you pointed out

2808
01:39:31,109 --> 01:39:29,600
there are lots of people out there that

2809
01:39:33,510 --> 01:39:31,119
agree with with what i

2810
01:39:34,950 --> 01:39:33,520
say and that explains the popularity of

2811
01:39:36,629 --> 01:39:34,960
the book you know it became

2812
01:39:38,470 --> 01:39:36,639
bestseller within the first week of

2813
01:39:40,950 --> 01:39:38,480
publication on the new york times list

2814
01:39:42,950 --> 01:39:40,960
and also in germany and other places

2815
01:39:44,310 --> 01:39:42,960
so it's clear that the public agrees

2816
01:39:46,229 --> 01:39:44,320
with these arguments

2817
01:39:48,390 --> 01:39:46,239
but it's also clear that something is

2818
01:39:50,310 --> 01:39:48,400
wrong in the scientific culture because

2819
01:39:51,830 --> 01:39:50,320
i get a lot of pushback and i get

2820
01:39:54,470 --> 01:39:51,840
attacked personally

2821
01:39:56,229 --> 01:39:54,480
on issues you know that are really

2822
01:39:58,390 --> 01:39:56,239
puzzling for me because i'm trying to

2823
01:39:59,990 --> 01:39:58,400
advocate more funding for the search for

2824
01:40:01,669 --> 01:40:00,000
technological signatures and then some

2825
01:40:05,750 --> 01:40:01,679
people have blamed me for

2826
01:40:07,910 --> 01:40:05,760
uh actually arguing against that

2827
01:40:09,990 --> 01:40:07,920
it really goes completely opposite to my

2828
01:40:13,910 --> 01:40:10,000
message and

2829
01:40:16,229 --> 01:40:13,920
i find it really strange frankly that

2830
01:40:18,310 --> 01:40:16,239
somehow my scientific colleagues are not

2831
01:40:21,270 --> 01:40:18,320
getting it and

2832
01:40:22,310 --> 01:40:21,280
and i think that it implies that it will

2833
01:40:25,510 --> 01:40:22,320
not be easy

2834
01:40:28,070 --> 01:40:25,520
to to change the the current culture and

2835
01:40:29,990 --> 01:40:28,080
uh unless of course young people that

2836
01:40:31,590 --> 01:40:30,000
enter the halls of academia

2837
01:40:33,030 --> 01:40:31,600
in the coming years you know will bring

2838
01:40:35,590 --> 01:40:33,040
a fresh

2839
01:40:36,310 --> 01:40:35,600
perspective into it and i heard from a

2840
01:40:39,189 --> 01:40:36,320
lot of people

2841
01:40:41,030 --> 01:40:39,199
they wrote emails to me that indicate

2842
01:40:43,350 --> 01:40:41,040
that they are supportive of my views

2843
01:40:45,030 --> 01:40:43,360
people in academia but they're afraid to

2844
01:40:46,390 --> 01:40:45,040
speak out because

2845
01:40:48,950 --> 01:40:46,400
they're worried about their job

2846
01:40:50,070 --> 01:40:48,960
prospects and that includes even senior

2847
01:40:52,149 --> 01:40:50,080
people you know that

2848
01:40:54,149 --> 01:40:52,159
are afraid to do that you know i don't

2849
01:40:56,310 --> 01:40:54,159
care less because um

2850
01:40:58,070 --> 01:40:56,320
i think that it's important this this

2851
01:41:00,470 --> 01:40:58,080
question is so important for the public

2852
01:41:03,750 --> 01:41:00,480
that scientists must address it and

2853
01:41:05,270 --> 01:41:03,760
uh it's such a big issue that you know i

2854
01:41:07,430 --> 01:41:05,280
don't care how much damage i

2855
01:41:09,109 --> 01:41:07,440
encounter you know because when i was at

2856
01:41:10,709 --> 01:41:09,119
age 18 i went to

2857
01:41:13,030 --> 01:41:10,719
i was recruited to the military in

2858
01:41:14,790 --> 01:41:13,040
israel and there was a saying among the

2859
01:41:17,270 --> 01:41:14,800
soldiers when i went through part

2860
01:41:19,109 --> 01:41:17,280
parachute paratrooper training that

2861
01:41:20,790 --> 01:41:19,119
sometimes the soldier has to put his

2862
01:41:22,870 --> 01:41:20,800
body on the barbed wire

2863
01:41:24,790 --> 01:41:22,880
so that others can pass through and

2864
01:41:27,510 --> 01:41:24,800
that's pretty much my

2865
01:41:29,270 --> 01:41:27,520
attitude in this context that them you

2866
01:41:31,189 --> 01:41:29,280
know i'm willing to suffer the pain

2867
01:41:32,790 --> 01:41:31,199
so that the younger generation of today

2868
01:41:34,310 --> 01:41:32,800
will be able to discuss this subject

2869
01:41:34,950 --> 01:41:34,320
freely because i think it's extremely

2870
01:41:36,629 --> 01:41:34,960
important

2871
01:41:38,310 --> 01:41:36,639
you know it's one of those scientific

2872
01:41:40,550 --> 01:41:38,320
questions that will have a huge impact

2873
01:41:41,990 --> 01:41:40,560
on our society if we find the answer

2874
01:41:43,750 --> 01:41:42,000
and we have the ability to find the

2875
01:41:45,510 --> 01:41:43,760
answer it's only that

2876
01:41:47,590 --> 01:41:45,520
you know many of my colleagues are

2877
01:41:49,750 --> 01:41:47,600
refusing to discuss it openly

2878
01:41:51,510 --> 01:41:49,760
and i do think that it's just a matter

2879
01:41:54,550 --> 01:41:51,520
of

2880
01:41:57,189 --> 01:41:54,560
social norms within the culture because

2881
01:41:58,390 --> 01:41:57,199
there is no merit to the argument

2882
01:42:00,390 --> 01:41:58,400
scientifically that

2883
01:42:01,430 --> 01:42:00,400
we are unique and special i mean we

2884
01:42:02,790 --> 01:42:01,440
should be open-minded

2885
01:42:04,870 --> 01:42:02,800
the possibility that there might be

2886
01:42:07,189 --> 01:42:04,880
others on our cosmic street

2887
01:42:09,189 --> 01:42:07,199
and we just need to search for them you

2888
01:42:10,790 --> 01:42:09,199
know my daughters when they were infants

2889
01:42:11,750 --> 01:42:10,800
they tended to think that they are the

2890
01:42:13,109 --> 01:42:11,760
smartest

2891
01:42:14,950 --> 01:42:13,119
and when we took them to the

2892
01:42:17,030 --> 01:42:14,960
kindergarten they realized that

2893
01:42:18,709 --> 01:42:17,040
there are smarter kids around and of

2894
01:42:20,149 --> 01:42:18,719
course they would have preferred to stay

2895
01:42:22,149 --> 01:42:20,159
at home and

2896
01:42:24,390 --> 01:42:22,159
maintain the illusion but you know

2897
01:42:28,310 --> 01:42:24,400
science is about getting information

2898
01:42:30,470 --> 01:42:28,320
and um

2899
01:42:32,390 --> 01:42:30,480
for example you may argue okay we don't

2900
01:42:33,830 --> 01:42:32,400
want that information and

2901
01:42:35,750 --> 01:42:33,840
uh look at what happened to the

2902
01:42:38,070 --> 01:42:35,760
dinosaurs you know they they

2903
01:42:39,669 --> 01:42:38,080
enjoyed eating grass and just focusing

2904
01:42:41,270 --> 01:42:39,679
on their immediate environment and they

2905
01:42:41,990 --> 01:42:41,280
had huge bodies so they thought that

2906
01:42:45,510 --> 01:42:42,000
they are resilient

2907
01:42:46,950 --> 01:42:45,520
to any danger and then came this rock 66

2908
01:42:49,030 --> 01:42:46,960
million years ago and

2909
01:42:50,790 --> 01:42:49,040
uh three quarters of four life forms on

2910
01:42:52,310 --> 01:42:50,800
earth where it went extinct including

2911
01:42:55,109 --> 01:42:52,320
the dinosaurs so

2912
01:42:56,790 --> 01:42:55,119
um just focusing on your immediate needs

2913
01:42:58,629 --> 01:42:56,800
and environment and ignoring the big

2914
01:43:00,470 --> 01:42:58,639
picture is not a good approach and

2915
01:43:02,070 --> 01:43:00,480
we know that already from the pandemic

2916
01:43:03,990 --> 01:43:02,080
you know if you think that you can just

2917
01:43:06,470 --> 01:43:04,000
worry about your local politics and not

2918
01:43:09,189 --> 01:43:06,480
worry about what happens in wuhan china

2919
01:43:11,350 --> 01:43:09,199
then you are wrong because one day the

2920
01:43:13,510 --> 01:43:11,360
virus will come to your doorstep and you

2921
01:43:16,310 --> 01:43:13,520
need to understand the bigger picture

2922
01:43:17,189 --> 01:43:16,320
in order to figure out how to to respond

2923
01:43:19,830 --> 01:43:17,199
to it and

2924
01:43:21,350 --> 01:43:19,840
and by the big picture i mean also our

2925
01:43:23,750 --> 01:43:21,360
environment with the stars

2926
01:43:25,030 --> 01:43:23,760
we want to know who our neighbors are

2927
01:43:27,109 --> 01:43:25,040
because at some point you know we've

2928
01:43:28,310 --> 01:43:27,119
been broadcasting radio waves radio

2929
01:43:31,109 --> 01:43:28,320
signals for

2930
01:43:33,430 --> 01:43:31,119
a century more than a century now and if

2931
01:43:34,790 --> 01:43:33,440
if they have any radio telescopes like

2932
01:43:36,950 --> 01:43:34,800
we possess

2933
01:43:38,629 --> 01:43:36,960
they may know about us already so you

2934
01:43:40,310 --> 01:43:38,639
know

2935
01:43:43,590 --> 01:43:40,320
sometime in the future we might hear

2936
01:43:45,510 --> 01:43:43,600
back and we want to know who is around

2937
01:43:47,350 --> 01:43:45,520
uh when you enter a room full of

2938
01:43:50,310 --> 01:43:47,360
strangers

2939
01:43:51,910 --> 01:43:50,320
the smart thing to do is first be quiet

2940
01:43:53,590 --> 01:43:51,920
and listen because you never know if

2941
01:43:55,750 --> 01:43:53,600
there are predators around that

2942
01:43:57,430 --> 01:43:55,760
could risk your existence and you know

2943
01:43:58,870 --> 01:43:57,440
it's really important for us to figure

2944
01:44:01,109 --> 01:43:58,880
out who is around

2945
01:44:02,229 --> 01:44:01,119
because it gives us a better perspective

2946
01:44:05,750 --> 01:44:02,239
about our place

2947
01:44:07,430 --> 01:44:05,760
but coming back to my um

2948
01:44:09,590 --> 01:44:07,440
colleagues you know i'm really

2949
01:44:11,350 --> 01:44:09,600
frustrated by this and i'm worried that

2950
01:44:13,030 --> 01:44:11,360
it will not be easy and

2951
01:44:15,430 --> 01:44:13,040
my hope is really that the younger

2952
01:44:19,030 --> 01:44:15,440
generation and maybe the public

2953
01:44:21,109 --> 01:44:19,040
will change somehow the culture uh

2954
01:44:22,550 --> 01:44:21,119
you know the public has influence

2955
01:44:24,629 --> 01:44:22,560
because the public funds

2956
01:44:26,310 --> 01:44:24,639
science and the public should have a

2957
01:44:28,870 --> 01:44:26,320
voice about what scientists

2958
01:44:31,350 --> 01:44:28,880
do and if scientists prefer to work on

2959
01:44:33,990 --> 01:44:31,360
extra dimensions that have no

2960
01:44:34,870 --> 01:44:34,000
or or on some forms of dark matter that

2961
01:44:37,590 --> 01:44:34,880
have no

2962
01:44:40,149 --> 01:44:37,600
direct impact on our lives while

2963
01:44:41,750 --> 01:44:40,159
ignoring the question of are we alone

2964
01:44:43,590 --> 01:44:41,760
the public should have a voice that's

2965
01:44:44,870 --> 01:44:43,600
saying no you should actually address

2966
01:44:48,470 --> 01:44:44,880
some of the questions that they

2967
01:44:49,030 --> 01:44:48,480
that we care about yep um are we alone

2968
01:44:52,070 --> 01:44:49,040
and if

2969
01:44:55,030 --> 01:44:52,080
whoever changes that whoever has

2970
01:44:55,510 --> 01:44:55,040
the evidence i mean it would be i would

2971
01:44:57,590 --> 01:44:55,520
think

2972
01:44:59,030 --> 01:44:57,600
the greatest discovery of all time you

2973
01:45:01,669 --> 01:44:59,040
know i mean agree

2974
01:45:02,950 --> 01:45:01,679
i don't know what else would top it life

2975
01:45:04,390 --> 01:45:02,960
after death if

2976
01:45:06,070 --> 01:45:04,400
evidence or something like that i don't

2977
01:45:08,790 --> 01:45:06,080
know

2978
01:45:09,189 --> 01:45:08,800
right now we have mike from cincinnati

2979
01:45:12,950 --> 01:45:09,199
mike

2980
01:45:15,910 --> 01:45:12,960
welcome to the show well hi

2981
01:45:17,830 --> 01:45:15,920
uh great show i came late so i'm not

2982
01:45:19,510 --> 01:45:17,840
sure if this has been asked or not but

2983
01:45:22,790 --> 01:45:19,520
i'd like to ask since you have both

2984
01:45:25,669 --> 01:45:22,800
mark and abby there uh

2985
01:45:26,950 --> 01:45:25,679
why isn't there a camera on both sides

2986
01:45:29,750 --> 01:45:26,960
of the moon a tv

2987
01:45:31,590 --> 01:45:29,760
camera broadcasting live back to the

2988
01:45:33,990 --> 01:45:31,600
earth talk about getting people

2989
01:45:36,070 --> 01:45:34,000
interested it doesn't seem like it would

2990
01:45:39,669 --> 01:45:36,080
be that expensive

2991
01:45:41,590 --> 01:45:39,679
and also telescopes built on the moon

2992
01:45:44,950 --> 01:45:41,600
would they be able to photograph

2993
01:45:46,790 --> 01:45:44,960
better something like al muammu

2994
01:45:48,950 --> 01:45:46,800
the moon is not far enough from the

2995
01:45:52,310 --> 01:45:48,960
earth to offer

2996
01:45:55,270 --> 01:45:52,320
a a very different vantage point but

2997
01:45:56,229 --> 01:45:55,280
people are discussing putting telescopes

2998
01:45:57,990 --> 01:45:56,239
on the moon

2999
01:45:59,669 --> 01:45:58,000
the one advantage is there is no

3000
01:46:01,270 --> 01:45:59,679
atmosphere so you know the atmosphere

3001
01:46:05,270 --> 01:46:01,280
blurs the image

3002
01:46:05,910 --> 01:46:05,280
that you get uh from sources on the sky

3003
01:46:09,189 --> 01:46:05,920
and

3004
01:46:10,870 --> 01:46:09,199
uh also the the moon at radio

3005
01:46:13,030 --> 01:46:10,880
wavelengths doesn't have

3006
01:46:14,310 --> 01:46:13,040
an ionosphere that blocks ready waves at

3007
01:46:16,390 --> 01:46:14,320
low frequencies and

3008
01:46:17,430 --> 01:46:16,400
there are many advantages for astronomy

3009
01:46:20,070 --> 01:46:17,440
to the moon

3010
01:46:20,550 --> 01:46:20,080
uh but of course it's very expensive to

3011
01:46:23,830 --> 01:46:20,560
bring

3012
01:46:27,030 --> 01:46:23,840
stuff to the moon and build it there and

3013
01:46:29,109 --> 01:46:27,040
the idea of having astronomy on the moon

3014
01:46:30,229 --> 01:46:29,119
is old you know they're decades old but

3015
01:46:32,870 --> 01:46:30,239
maybe you know

3016
01:46:34,870 --> 01:46:32,880
i wrote even a paper just about a year

3017
01:46:36,229 --> 01:46:34,880
ago about the building a gravitational

3018
01:46:37,750 --> 01:46:36,239
wave observatory in

3019
01:46:39,750 --> 01:46:37,760
the moon because it doesn't have any

3020
01:46:41,669 --> 01:46:39,760
seismic noise there and

3021
01:46:43,750 --> 01:46:41,679
it could be much more sensitive than the

3022
01:46:45,510 --> 01:46:43,760
ligo experiment on earth

3023
01:46:47,750 --> 01:46:45,520
so there are many advantages to

3024
01:46:50,149 --> 01:46:47,760
astronomy on the moon but

3025
01:46:52,629 --> 01:46:50,159
it's mainly the cost of bringing stuff

3026
01:46:54,950 --> 01:46:52,639
there and building it there

3027
01:46:57,030 --> 01:46:54,960
which we haven't figured out yet because

3028
01:46:59,270 --> 01:46:57,040
we don't have a sustainable base

3029
01:47:00,709 --> 01:46:59,280
there is a plan called the artemis by

3030
01:47:02,550 --> 01:47:00,719
nasa to go to

3031
01:47:04,790 --> 01:47:02,560
to build a sustainable base on the moon

3032
01:47:05,430 --> 01:47:04,800
but it's not clear how quickly that

3033
01:47:09,430 --> 01:47:05,440
would be

3034
01:47:11,830 --> 01:47:09,440
realized perhaps in a few years

3035
01:47:13,030 --> 01:47:11,840
can i add to that yeah yeah sure go

3036
01:47:15,189 --> 01:47:13,040
ahead

3037
01:47:16,310 --> 01:47:15,199
you know as far as having telescopes on

3038
01:47:18,070 --> 01:47:16,320
the moon

3039
01:47:20,070 --> 01:47:18,080
it's actually far better to just have

3040
01:47:21,510 --> 01:47:20,080
them in orbit or put them at a lagrange

3041
01:47:24,470 --> 01:47:21,520
point which is like a parking

3042
01:47:25,590 --> 01:47:24,480
spot in space um if you put them on the

3043
01:47:28,709 --> 01:47:25,600
moon you've got other

3044
01:47:30,629 --> 01:47:28,719
issues to worry about that is every

3045
01:47:31,910 --> 01:47:30,639
impact to the moon it still gets hit by

3046
01:47:34,149 --> 01:47:31,920
the way you know

3047
01:47:35,669 --> 01:47:34,159
a lot regularly actually it doesn't have

3048
01:47:37,990 --> 01:47:35,679
an atmosphere to burn up

3049
01:47:39,990 --> 01:47:38,000
yeah right and it's going to splash

3050
01:47:40,870 --> 01:47:40,000
stuff up into the exosphere the area

3051
01:47:42,310 --> 01:47:40,880
around the moon

3052
01:47:44,310 --> 01:47:42,320
and guess what that's going to land

3053
01:47:45,750 --> 01:47:44,320
eventually on your telescope

3054
01:47:47,030 --> 01:47:45,760
so how you're going to clean it now you

3055
01:47:49,030 --> 01:47:47,040
got to have somebody there now you have

3056
01:47:51,270 --> 01:47:49,040
a way to do that

3057
01:47:52,870 --> 01:47:51,280
yeah yeah really exactly you know uh

3058
01:47:54,629 --> 01:47:52,880
which is one of my thoughts about why

3059
01:47:56,310 --> 01:47:54,639
did spirit and opportunity die well

3060
01:47:57,830 --> 01:47:56,320
because there was dust accumulation on

3061
01:47:59,590 --> 01:47:57,840
the panels for the most part right i

3062
01:48:02,390 --> 01:47:59,600
mean that started to reduce

3063
01:48:03,590 --> 01:48:02,400
microvolts by microvolts are gone uh so

3064
01:48:04,390 --> 01:48:03,600
a windshield wiper would have been great

3065
01:48:06,629 --> 01:48:04,400
there

3066
01:48:08,310 --> 01:48:06,639
perseverance has such a thing it has a

3067
01:48:10,149 --> 01:48:08,320
dust off built in to do that

3068
01:48:11,430 --> 01:48:10,159
for not solar panels but for

3069
01:48:13,030 --> 01:48:11,440
instrumentation but

3070
01:48:15,189 --> 01:48:13,040
beside the point i just think that the

3071
01:48:17,109 --> 01:48:15,199
telescope concept is

3072
01:48:19,109 --> 01:48:17,119
far better served by putting it up in an

3073
01:48:22,149 --> 01:48:19,119
orbit even if it's a

3074
01:48:24,070 --> 01:48:22,159
very large orbit above the earth okay or

3075
01:48:25,830 --> 01:48:24,080
put it on a million miles away at a

3076
01:48:27,750 --> 01:48:25,840
lagrange point it might be a far

3077
01:48:28,950 --> 01:48:27,760
better solution and that's where james

3078
01:48:31,189 --> 01:48:28,960
webb is going for instance

3079
01:48:33,109 --> 01:48:31,199
so i think that's a better idea the

3080
01:48:34,870 --> 01:48:33,119
camera thing

3081
01:48:37,270 --> 01:48:34,880
what's that so that people could

3082
01:48:37,750 --> 01:48:37,280
actually watch impacts on the moon and

3083
01:48:39,830 --> 01:48:37,760
have a

3084
01:48:41,990 --> 01:48:39,840
you know a windshield wiper no that that

3085
01:48:42,229 --> 01:48:42,000
is uh that is an interesting suggestion

3086
01:48:46,070 --> 01:48:42,239
and

3087
01:48:47,990 --> 01:48:46,080
with my student

3088
01:48:49,590 --> 01:48:48,000
i can share it with you if you send me

3089
01:48:51,990 --> 01:48:49,600
an email where we

3090
01:48:53,270 --> 01:48:52,000
talked about a camera that will record

3091
01:48:56,149 --> 01:48:53,280
impacts on the moon

3092
01:48:56,550 --> 01:48:56,159
yes that's right would you be able to

3093
01:49:01,350 --> 01:48:56,560
see

3094
01:49:03,430 --> 01:49:01,360
uh meteorites going by in the atmosphere

3095
01:49:05,590 --> 01:49:03,440
exactly what we no we were talking about

3096
01:49:08,709 --> 01:49:05,600
impacts on the moon but

3097
01:49:12,229 --> 01:49:08,719
you can also look at earth yes right

3098
01:49:14,470 --> 01:49:12,239
actually uh we're running um

3099
01:49:15,830 --> 01:49:14,480
i run i run two observatories i have one

3100
01:49:16,550 --> 01:49:15,840
in connecticut and we're actually doing

3101
01:49:17,910 --> 01:49:16,560
a remote

3102
01:49:20,149 --> 01:49:17,920
view of the moon we're actually watching

3103
01:49:22,149 --> 01:49:20,159
the moon during a lunar eclipse

3104
01:49:23,990 --> 01:49:22,159
and during the height of the eclipse we

3105
01:49:26,070 --> 01:49:24,000
caught a meteor strike the moon

3106
01:49:27,589 --> 01:49:26,080
oh we're one of five groups on the

3107
01:49:28,310 --> 01:49:27,599
planet that actually saw the meteor

3108
01:49:30,390 --> 01:49:28,320
strike

3109
01:49:31,830 --> 01:49:30,400
i didn't know that yeah yeah i can send

3110
01:49:33,510 --> 01:49:31,840
you the the exact location you can

3111
01:49:35,350 --> 01:49:33,520
actually see it's a little flat

3112
01:49:37,109 --> 01:49:35,360
addiction yeah it was a very small

3113
01:49:38,550 --> 01:49:37,119
object but still right i mean that's

3114
01:49:39,669 --> 01:49:38,560
that's very good and there's a spanish

3115
01:49:40,870 --> 01:49:39,679
group by the way that's always

3116
01:49:42,709 --> 01:49:40,880
monitoring the moon

3117
01:49:44,470 --> 01:49:42,719
by the way speaking about the dust that

3118
01:49:46,870 --> 01:49:44,480
you were talking about before it's very

3119
01:49:48,229 --> 01:49:46,880
sharp on the moon it's different from

3120
01:49:51,030 --> 01:49:48,239
the dust we have here

3121
01:49:52,310 --> 01:49:51,040
um because there is no atmosphere and

3122
01:49:54,870 --> 01:49:52,320
every you know it can

3123
01:49:56,390 --> 01:49:54,880
cut your your if you were to touch it it

3124
01:49:59,270 --> 01:49:56,400
would cut your skin

3125
01:49:59,669 --> 01:49:59,280
yeah wow it went through the astronauts

3126
01:50:01,830 --> 01:49:59,679
uh

3127
01:50:02,709 --> 01:50:01,840
insulation on their boots and i forget

3128
01:50:04,470 --> 01:50:02,719
which one it was

3129
01:50:06,950 --> 01:50:04,480
one of the apollo astronauts couldn't go

3130
01:50:10,870 --> 01:50:06,960
out for his final eva

3131
01:50:11,990 --> 01:50:10,880
because his ankle uh his ankle seal was

3132
01:50:13,510 --> 01:50:12,000
actually cut right down to the

3133
01:50:15,669 --> 01:50:13,520
insulation

3134
01:50:18,709 --> 01:50:15,679
it's because he duffeled his feet so you

3135
01:50:21,830 --> 01:50:21,189
i i talked to alan bean who was a fourth

3136
01:50:24,950 --> 01:50:21,840
man

3137
01:50:27,109 --> 01:50:24,960
on the moon he actually put dust

3138
01:50:29,430 --> 01:50:27,119
from a flag or something in his

3139
01:50:31,189 --> 01:50:29,440
paintings

3140
01:50:33,189 --> 01:50:31,199
and i'm actually going to play this uh

3141
01:50:34,149 --> 01:50:33,199
on youtube on his uh would have been his

3142
01:50:36,390 --> 01:50:34,159
80th birthday

3143
01:50:38,310 --> 01:50:36,400
oh i have his paintings i had i had

3144
01:50:39,030 --> 01:50:38,320
dinner with alan a long time ago

3145
01:50:41,830 --> 01:50:39,040
actually

3146
01:50:42,470 --> 01:50:41,840
wow his paintings are amazing very good

3147
01:50:45,030 --> 01:50:42,480
um

3148
01:50:45,750 --> 01:50:45,040
so i i had something really weird happen

3149
01:50:47,270 --> 01:50:45,760
too but

3150
01:50:48,470 --> 01:50:47,280
you probably have had this happen mark

3151
01:50:49,589 --> 01:50:48,480
because you're in the telescope all the

3152
01:50:51,109 --> 01:50:49,599
time but i happen to be at

3153
01:50:53,350 --> 01:50:51,119
the university of new hampshire in their

3154
01:50:56,629 --> 01:50:53,360
observatory and looking up

3155
01:50:58,390 --> 01:50:56,639
um at orion and and all of a sudden

3156
01:51:00,470 --> 01:50:58,400
there was a flash across

3157
01:51:01,830 --> 01:51:00,480
really bright flash and it was a meteor

3158
01:51:03,270 --> 01:51:01,840
that went in front of right in front of

3159
01:51:06,310 --> 01:51:03,280
the telescope what are the odds of that

3160
01:51:06,870 --> 01:51:06,320
i mean does that happen yeah it does it

3161
01:51:08,390 --> 01:51:06,880
does

3162
01:51:10,870 --> 01:51:08,400
here's the other thing too did you ever

3163
01:51:12,310 --> 01:51:10,880
look up in the sky and to you abby too

3164
01:51:15,750 --> 01:51:12,320
ever look up in the sky and you see a

3165
01:51:17,430 --> 01:51:15,760
flash that's just appears and it's gone

3166
01:51:18,950 --> 01:51:17,440
well that's see you better duck because

3167
01:51:20,470 --> 01:51:18,960
that could be a meteor coming right at

3168
01:51:22,790 --> 01:51:20,480
you

3169
01:51:24,229 --> 01:51:22,800
right no trail because it's coming right

3170
01:51:25,830 --> 01:51:24,239
at you of course

3171
01:51:27,910 --> 01:51:25,840
one thing to keep in mind is small

3172
01:51:29,510 --> 01:51:27,920
objects are much more common than big

3173
01:51:31,270 --> 01:51:29,520
objects and

3174
01:51:33,270 --> 01:51:31,280
you know the small ones smaller than the

3175
01:51:34,229 --> 01:51:33,280
size of a person they simply burn up all

3176
01:51:36,870 --> 01:51:34,239
together

3177
01:51:38,310 --> 01:51:36,880
yeah right right it's more fun to warn

3178
01:51:40,229 --> 01:51:38,320
people about having to duck when they

3179
01:51:43,830 --> 01:51:40,239
see something coming right at them

3180
01:51:47,030 --> 01:51:43,840
yeah um avi you you must

3181
01:51:48,550 --> 01:51:47,040
have i mean i emailed you and

3182
01:51:50,950 --> 01:51:48,560
i'm not even going to say how i got your

3183
01:51:53,510 --> 01:51:50,960
email but you must get

3184
01:51:54,470 --> 01:51:53,520
thousands of emails oh yeah since this

3185
01:51:57,270 --> 01:51:54,480
book came out

3186
01:51:58,550 --> 01:51:57,280
right and and how do you i'm so glad you

3187
01:52:01,669 --> 01:51:58,560
responded to me but

3188
01:52:02,790 --> 01:52:01,679
um how do you keep up with all the

3189
01:52:05,350 --> 01:52:02,800
publicity you just mentioned

3190
01:52:07,109 --> 01:52:05,360
earlier you had 300 interviews yeah well

3191
01:52:09,189 --> 01:52:07,119
i wake up at the 4am

3192
01:52:11,430 --> 01:52:09,199
i mean i i take some time to jog every

3193
01:52:14,310 --> 01:52:11,440
morning at 5am in the company of

3194
01:52:14,709 --> 01:52:14,320
birds ducks and rabbits i like nature

3195
01:52:19,750 --> 01:52:14,719
and

3196
01:52:21,669 --> 01:52:19,760
sunrise which is beautiful

3197
01:52:22,870 --> 01:52:21,679
but after that they're starting around

3198
01:52:25,430 --> 01:52:22,880
eight am

3199
01:52:27,750 --> 01:52:25,440
over the past eight weeks and i had back

3200
01:52:28,550 --> 01:52:27,760
to back interviews until seven pm every

3201
01:52:31,109 --> 01:52:28,560
day

3202
01:52:31,589 --> 01:52:31,119
and it's exhausting and i try to you

3203
01:52:34,629 --> 01:52:31,599
know

3204
01:52:36,790 --> 01:52:34,639
some days i couldn't have lunch and i

3205
01:52:37,830 --> 01:52:36,800
try to also answer all the emails that i

3206
01:52:40,390 --> 01:52:37,840
get and

3207
01:52:41,270 --> 01:52:40,400
it's a lot of work but um i think it's

3208
01:52:43,350 --> 01:52:41,280
important

3209
01:52:44,629 --> 01:52:43,360
especially because this issue is

3210
01:52:47,990 --> 01:52:44,639
extremely important and

3211
01:52:50,070 --> 01:52:48,000
you know my publicist in the uk

3212
01:52:52,550 --> 01:52:50,080
uh so i have a team of people that you

3213
01:52:55,589 --> 01:52:52,560
know a a literary agent

3214
01:52:57,830 --> 01:52:55,599
editor and publicists and the publicist

3215
01:52:58,070 --> 01:52:57,840
in the uk was telling me great job avi

3216
01:53:01,830 --> 01:52:58,080
you

3217
01:53:03,910 --> 01:53:01,840
of sales and so forth

3218
01:53:06,070 --> 01:53:03,920
and i said look i'm not marketing the

3219
01:53:06,629 --> 01:53:06,080
book i'm just trying to convey a message

3220
01:53:10,310 --> 01:53:06,639
and

3221
01:53:12,470 --> 01:53:10,320
you know the if the public was not there

3222
01:53:13,990 --> 01:53:12,480
didn't was not resonating with my

3223
01:53:16,310 --> 01:53:14,000
message i wouldn't care less i would

3224
01:53:17,990 --> 01:53:16,320
still deliver the same message so

3225
01:53:19,589 --> 01:53:18,000
you know the book sales could have gone

3226
01:53:23,109 --> 01:53:19,599
down and i wouldn't care

3227
01:53:24,709 --> 01:53:23,119
about it so it's just a byproduct of the

3228
01:53:27,750 --> 01:53:24,719
fact that the public

3229
01:53:29,109 --> 01:53:27,760
uh appreciates the message and um that's

3230
01:53:30,950 --> 01:53:29,119
the way i see it and

3231
01:53:33,669 --> 01:53:30,960
the opportunity of having the interviews

3232
01:53:34,950 --> 01:53:33,679
is to it's a platform for me to express

3233
01:53:37,669 --> 01:53:34,960
these views and

3234
01:53:38,229 --> 01:53:37,679
i i don't you know that's the way i see

3235
01:53:41,830 --> 01:53:38,239
it

3236
01:53:43,510 --> 01:53:41,840
the backlash from the scientific

3237
01:53:47,830 --> 01:53:43,520
community at the same time so

3238
01:53:49,430 --> 01:53:47,840
some of it is quite painful um and

3239
01:53:51,910 --> 01:53:49,440
i have to deal with all of that at the

3240
01:53:52,870 --> 01:53:51,920
same time so you know i'm trying to be

3241
01:53:56,550 --> 01:53:52,880
resilient

3242
01:53:58,390 --> 01:53:56,560
uh trying to to

3243
01:54:00,310 --> 01:53:58,400
you know behave as if i'm made of

3244
01:54:02,149 --> 01:54:00,320
titanium

3245
01:54:03,589 --> 01:54:02,159
well we are out of time but i want to

3246
01:54:04,229 --> 01:54:03,599
thank you so much it's been such a

3247
01:54:06,470 --> 01:54:04,239
pleasure

3248
01:54:07,589 --> 01:54:06,480
really it's been really wonderful thank

3249
01:54:09,270 --> 01:54:07,599
you you

3250
01:54:10,950 --> 01:54:09,280
and i hope you keep getting the message

3251
01:54:13,990 --> 01:54:10,960
out there thank you

3252
01:54:16,470 --> 01:54:14,000
take care and mark thanks a lot

3253
01:54:17,669 --> 01:54:16,480
and we had a run all right it was a

3254
01:54:19,830 --> 01:54:17,679
great run wasn't it

3255
01:54:22,229 --> 01:54:19,840
yeah all right talk to you later all

3256
01:54:25,490 --> 01:54:22,239
right everyone we'll see you next week

3257
01:54:34,830 --> 01:54:25,500
and remember to keep your eyes to the

3258
01:54:43,530 --> 01:54:36,740
sky